to destroy the true runes

Detailed hypotheses for, and analysis of, the events transpiring during the Suikoden games
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Giammy91
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to destroy the true runes

Post by Giammy91 »

it is possible to destroy the true runes?

we know of some true runes passings like the front gate rune,il sovereign rune and the true wind rune, but they have been truly destroyed?

their carrying elements have been killed (perhaps)ma the true runes can be survivors and hidden who he knows where
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and the beast rune ,where it is ended after to be struck from Riou and its army?
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Fliktor
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Post by Fliktor »

No True Runes have been destroyed by the end of Suikoden III; but to answer your question, yes it would be possible to destroy a True Rune, as proven in Suikoden III - if not, the Fire Bringers probably wouldn't have bothered with the rush to stop Luc.
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Shirofan
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Post by Shirofan »

The issue is slightly more complicated than that:

Firstly we don't know if any True Rune has been destroyed because we don't know anything about a significant proportion of them.

As for whether a True Rune can be destroyed then it takes more analysis: Luc certainly felt that it could and from the sources quoted the Sindar/Cyndar [I don't like the latter spelling] believed it was possible; however, there is no evidence that they were right. So it remains a theory until proved otherwise as they could have been wrong.
The possibility of ceasing to exist is enough of a motivating factor to do something about it; besides if Luc was wrong and the True Rune wasn't destroyed then the power surge would probably still have had a major catastrophic effect. When your continent has been decimated, whether or not it took out the True Rune as well is a moot point.

What makes least sense is that the Ceremonial Site ruins do not really seem consistent if they were designed to destroy True Runes: The idea is simple take four True Runes and focus their energy onto a central point where the fifth bearer stands; this will then saturate that bearer with energy, effectively overloading him, the release of that power through the True Rune would cause monumental destruction taking the True Rune with it.
Why the conclusion that the True Rune wouldn't be able to cope with the bearer unleashing that much power through it isn't elaborated upon.

That doesn't sound too implausible until you realise that the game insisted that the other four True Runes were the elemental ones. Now that suggests that if those ruins were built to destroy a True Rune then it must have been one with four specific partners. Unless the way of dividing up the True Runes is odder than people first anticipated, and there is at least one other set of five in the mix, then it suggests that the True Elemental ones were the target.
We know they didn't destroy one in the past so they either tried it and failed (conveniently forgetting to note this down), built the site and gave up at the last minue (which seems like a waste of time) or the place was designed for something else entirely (what is another matter.)

Normally when a bearer dies the rune either passes to a nearby potential bearer or disappears to be discovered at a later date when it is ready. How it decides what to do seems to be up to the Rune in question as they do have thought processes of their own.

Ironically the plan to use this site may not necessarily be Luc's: he saw it as a way of escaping from the True Wind Rune; it may be that the True Wind Rune orchestrated it to be free of Luc.
After all the bleak visions of a possible future were viewed by Luc through the True Wind Rune; did it show him the future at his command, or a future that would spur him into desperate measures to prevent it?
If the Ceremonial Site had been used before to attempt what Luc was attempting then it may have taken out a large area of potential observers, but the True Elemental Runes themselves would have been witness to the attempt and that it failed.
Not to mention that various feeling would be playing in Luc's head such as doubt, fear and the like; one other vioce amongst them that he may have mistaken for resolve could have pushed him to this.

How Luc would have failed to notice this manipulation is simple: the True Rune designed him so he wouldn't. Hikusaak's cloning process itself seems to require a True Rune as the base to create a life from the genetic pontial provided. That life would then form into the best bearer possible for the rune which because of this would be imprisoned within, and the shell would be ageless so wouldn't die from natural causes. (If not then Hikusaak would have conquered the entire planet with an army of disposable mages with exceptional potential.)
If the True Rune formed the shell it most likely formed the consciousness and imprinted its own failsafes in, as it was being forced to inhabit such a vessel; and any prisoner has the right to try and escape no matter how long that takes.

I seem to have hijacked this topic with a 'Luc, puppet of the True Wind Rune' one and for that I apologise but it did serve as an answer to the question; at least at first.
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Re: the destroyer of the true runes

Post by Black Sword »

I think it's impossible to destroy a True Rune. they are passed from one person to another, and can't be destroyed. as we knows, true runes is gods in suikoden world.
in the end of suikoden 2, maybe the true beast rune fly away and search for its new bearer. the same thing goes to another runes that lost it's bearer.
maybe someday a true runes fly to our world and search for its master :D
Sickpup
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Re: to destroy the true runes

Post by Sickpup »

Giammy91 wrote:it is possible to destroy the true runes?

we know of some true runes passings like the front gate rune,il sovereign rune and the true wind rune, but they have been truly destroyed?
For the Front Gate and soveirgn rune...does all it take to destroy a True Rune is to drop the bearer off a high building? I think not. If that's the case, Luc's job in Suiko3 would have been a whole lot easier.

And I don't think the True Wind Rune was destroyed, because Luc said in the end he failed. If it got destroyed with Luc, then Luc would have been very happy camper, I think. There is a topic somewhere about where the TWR went.
Wraith
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Re: the destroyer of the true runes

Post by Wraith »

Black Sword wrote:I think it's impossible to destroy a True Rune. they are passed from one person to another, and can't be destroyed. as we knows, true runes is gods in suikoden world.
in the end of suikoden 2, maybe the true beast rune fly away and search for its new bearer. the same thing goes to another runes that lost it's bearer.
maybe someday a true runes fly to our world and search for its master :D
When a bearer dies the True Rune dissapears or passes to another person. If it dissapears it could reappear at any time and almost in any form. True Runes are not gods they CAN be destroyed but the only way we have seen at this time is by using multiple true runes and channeling their power into the true rune you wish to destroy. The explosion this would create will probably not destroy the other True Runes. As you may know the Sindar created a temple for this purpose. I think this was so that they could destroy the Rune of Change.

One thing we know: They CAN be destroyed
Angelis_Taleria
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Post by Angelis_Taleria »

I think the above post by the late, if you will, Shirofan indicates that all of this is theory. We do not know for certain if a true rune can be destroyed or not, so it's best to use statements like , "perhaps a true rune can be destroyed", rather than saying that they can indeed be destroyed.
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Wraith
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Post by Wraith »

Angelis_Taleria wrote:I think the above post by the late, if you will, Shirofan indicates that all of this is theory. We do not know for certain if a true rune can be destroyed or not, so it's best to use statements like , "perhaps a true rune can be destroyed", rather than saying that they can indeed be destroyed.
It is true that there is no actual confirmation on the fact that it can be destroyed but if it couldn't be destroyed then Leknaat would not have worried so much.

Well actually Leknaat did not worry at all... She didin't even appear at all to the Tenkai. Either she knew she knew he would be stopped or she knew the True Runes couldn't be destroyed.
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Post by Sickpup »

Wraith wrote: Well actually Leknaat did not worry at all... She didin't even appear at all to the Tenkai. Either she knew she knew he would be stopped or she knew the True Runes couldn't be destroyed.
I have a theory as of why Leknaat didn't seem to interfere during SUikoden 3.

Leknaat always seems to be on the side of where the Stars of Destiny are gathering. But in Suiko3, your enemies were SoD's themselves. So since they were, Leknaat had to just let the fate of the 108 play out. And couldn't interfere.
Futch02
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Post by Futch02 »

Seeing as it's never been done before, it's safe to say there's a very strong possibility it's probably far too difficult for one to achieve alone. I never like to say something "can't" because there's always a loophole. Like, maybe, you need the joined power of the other 26 to destroy the 27th, or some fantasy nonsense like that.
Shirofan wrote: Ironically the plan to use this site may not necessarily be Luc's: he saw it as a way of escaping from the True Wind Rune; it may be that the True Wind Rune orchestrated it to be free of Luc.
This idea intrigues me. It's possible that it's a lot more difficult for a rune to free itself from one of these clones then it is a normal person, seeing as it's not only bound to the body, but the soul as well. However, a cross point could be how easily Luc snatched it from Sassi (I use the word "easily" rather loosely here, of course).

On a light note... Perhaps the reason Leknaat didn't interfere was that she couldn't find the door :D
Last edited by Futch02 on Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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son_michael
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Post by son_michael »

leknaat didn't interfere because she's weaker than luc

luc and leknaat's convo explains this in suiko 3



Leknaat: and what if I try to stop you?

Luc: You cant, not with that imperfect rune
anokosa
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Post by anokosa »

hmmm....... what if the TWR vanished? then Luc may think it's been destroyed, but in reality, it has just hidden, maybe to return centuries later. and Luc seems really bitchy in this game, from what I've heard, doesn't he?
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Post by Jowy Atreides »

Leknaat could've teleported around and warned people though, and she chose not to.
Sickpup
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Post by Sickpup »

son_michael wrote:leknaat didn't interfere because she's weaker than luc

luc and leknaat's convo explains this in suiko 3
Yeah, that's true. But still, Leknaat never helped the Hero in Suikoden by lending her strength, just mostly her guidance. So being stronger or weakers then Luc is no excuse not to help the hero.

Maybe her alarm didn't go off during Suikoden 3, so she slept really late and kind of missed everything. Hey, it's happened to me with college classes.
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Post by demon eye »

Isn't it also possible that Leknaat didn't interfere because she wanted to test the possibility of whether man could change his own fate? Leknaat knew Luc better than anyone else. She knew his intent was not to destroy the True Wind Rune, but to liberate himself from the constrains of Destiny and Fate which guided his every step. She knew Luc wanted to be free more than anything.

Recall the question that Leknaat ask each player at the beginning of the very first Suikoden: Is fate unchangeable? Leknaat is in search of that answer and constantly spins the Wheel of Fate and Destiny in motion as she searches endlessly for the solution. I don't think Leknaat is interested in whether or not True Runes can or cannot be destroyed, but whether their is a possibility to alter the fate which the True Runes have laid out for the individuals of the Suikoden World. So, why help when she could learn so much from the actions of Luc and those that gathered to stop him?
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