The Soul Eater, Windy, and Time Travel

Detailed hypotheses for, and analysis of, the events transpiring during the Suikoden games
Calvin
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The Soul Eater, Windy, and Time Travel

Postby Calvin » Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:31 pm

I am sure this has been brought up before, however I could not find it, so here goes:

I've been replaying Suikoden I (boy has it been a long time) and I just finished the portion of the story where the Zodiac Sword sends Tir and company back in time to witness Windy attempting to steal the Soul Eater. Several things in this scene interested me greatly.

1. If I am remembering the dialogue correctly, Windy seemed to recognize Tir despite being in the past.
2. Ted interacted with Tir extensively during this scene.

My initial thoughts were that Tir was actually sent back in time, however for this to be true, Windy either would have to know the future, or have the ability to travel back in time as well (given that she recognized Tir). In this scenario I don't think it is that far fetched to believe that Ted may have purposefully set himself up to be "adopted" by Teo. Surely he would have recognized Tir. However, it also may have just been a powerful vision.

Given Windy's irresponsible obsession with obtaining the Soul Eater, if we were to follow either rabbit hole I think one might reasonably conclude that it was a trap set by Wendy. If Wendy could somehow send Tir back in time to meet Ted (a feat I would not discount given her power and the power of Neclord and Yuber), she might therefore control when and how the Soul Eater would resurface. Quite conveniently she became the Court Magician in the very Empire where Ted just so happened to be. Neclord was kinda in the employ of the Empire during the Gate Rune Wars (although really in the employ of Windy), and it just so happens that the Zodiac Sword was needed to defeat him. And, it just so happens that the Zodiac sword was the catalyst that sent Tir back in time when he went to retrieve it to defeat Neclord. Were Windy meddling with the past, this would ensure that Ted would surface a few years after Tir was born.

And if we were to say it was all an elaborate vision, it could have been used by Windy to make Tir and company feel even more sorry for Ted than they already did; later in the game, Windy uses a dominated Ted to attempt to get the Soul Eater. It would serve Windy's purposes to have Tir be as sympathetic to Ted as possible in that moment.

I think really what interests me about the whole concept is the idea of time travel within Suikoden. The only time travel I know of within the Suikodens is Viki. I do think that it stands to reason that someone with the Gate Rune (or part of it anyways) would be in a better position to affect time than most other True Rune Bearers. Couple that with what we've observed with Yuber and the Eightfold Rune and I don't think the idea is that far fetched. Then, the idea of being able to induce a vision in six people simultaneously is certainly not out of the question either with three True Rune Bearers and the Night Rune. That idea would seem to be discredited however due to the fact that the party is able to take back items (the Champion and Boar Runes), however that might just be a gameplay mechanics thing.

Or maybe Murayama didn't put as much thought into it as I am doing right now, and this drivel belongs in the unjustified theories section!

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Jack of All Trades
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Re: The Soul Eater, Windy, and Time Travel

Postby Jack of All Trades » Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:52 pm

I just watched the scene. Windy doesn't recognize Tir at all.

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BrucePrintscreen
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Re: The Soul Eater, Windy, and Time Travel

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:54 am

As a rule of thumb, anytime you focus on the runes, you are missing the point of Suikoden.

Runes are merely the way magic is expressed in Suikoden. Suspend your disbelief and ride along: magic happens in this world, supernatural stuff, it serves a greater purpose.

The greater purpose is what Suikoden is about: interesting characters in an interesting storyline.

So well, they travel in time? Sure, why not. I just reduced to ashes a group of sentient evil ivy plants by raising my finger and doing "ting"!

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sticky-runes
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Re: The Soul Eater, Windy, and Time Travel

Postby sticky-runes » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:40 am

Like Jack said: Windy doesn't recognize Tir during the Village of the Hidden Rune incident. She doesn't acknowledge him at all. You probably got that confused with another dialogue event.

As for why and how they get sent back in time, the star Dragon Sword is the True Rune of Night. Night is a unit of time, it is the period between sunset and sunrise, so it's quite possible the Night Rune has some power to manipulate time.

EDIT: The sword probably didn't choose that particular point in time. Fukien already gave us the speech about how all the stars are destined to gather under Tir, their current objective was to defeat Neclord and Tir's long term goal was to protect the Soul Eater from Windy, and the Village of the Hidden Rune incident is the point in history where Neclord, Windy and the Soul Eater all came together for the first time, so the Star Dragon Sword probably just acted as a vessel by sending them into the past and let Fate decide where they end up.

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Jack of All Trades
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Re: The Soul Eater, Windy, and Time Travel

Postby Jack of All Trades » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:32 am

I don't even like to speculate time travel. It could just be a dream. After all, what is the difference between traveling to a past you can't change and having a vision of it. The characters clearly imply that they've traveled through time, but they are just regular people, what do they know?

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sticky-runes
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Re: The Soul Eater, Windy, and Time Travel

Postby sticky-runes » Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:26 am

True, it could have just been a vision or a "what-if...?" scenario conjured up by the Sword and Cave of the Past (A bit like Luke Skywalker going into that cave where he faces a vision of Darth Vader). I'm just thinking out loud about why that particular incident, regardless of whether they physically went back in time or not. the characters are obviously connected because of their experiences with Ted, Windy and Neclord, and I think that's a bit more important than any physical time travel theories.

Calvin
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Re: The Soul Eater, Windy, and Time Travel

Postby Calvin » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:23 pm

Jack of All Trades wrote:I just watched the scene. Windy doesn't recognize Tir at all.

Ah, well, just goes to show you how tricky memory can be!

BrucePrintscreen wrote:As a rule of thumb, anytime you focus on the runes, you are missing the point of Suikoden.

Runes are merely the way magic is expressed in Suikoden. Suspend your disbelief and ride along: magic happens in this world, supernatural stuff, it serves a greater purpose.

The greater purpose is what Suikoden is about: interesting characters in an interesting storyline.

So well, they travel in time? Sure, why not. I just reduced to ashes a group of sentient evil ivy plants by raising my finger and doing "ting"!

In the sense of runes expressing a specific magical ability, perhaps you are right. I do think the runes play an important role in Suikoden, however, and are more than just an expression of magic. True Runes are basically gods, are sentient, and have served to drive the story in every main Suikoden game. While the interesting story and characters are just as important, to me it wouldn't be Suikoden without the runes.


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