Suikoden Plot Pattern?

Detailed hypotheses for, and analysis of, the events transpiring during the Suikoden games
User avatar
ninjaluc79
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: The Island Nations
Contact:

Suikoden Plot Pattern?

Postby ninjaluc79 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:11 am

Though I have only played S2 (planning to play the others, though...), I only read their storylines and I saw a possible pattern in this series, except the spin-offs.

All of the games in the series involve a protagonist and his best friend (or something like that).

Suikoden 1 - Tir and Gremio - Young Master and Servant
Suikoden 2 - Riou and Jowy - Best Friends
Suikoden 3 - Hugo and Lulu - Best Friends
Suikoden 4 - Lazlo and Snowe - Best Friends
Suikoden 5 - Frey and Lyon - Prince and Knight

The odd-numbered Suikodens (1,3,5) invlove the pairs wherein the second person dies at a certain part of the game (or almost dies in Lyon's case).

The even-numbered Suikodens (2,4) involve the pairs wherein the second person actually defects to the antagonist army. Jowy had defected from the City-State to Highland when he killed Annabelle, until such time that he was now the King of Highland, pitted against Riou and the Dunan Unification Army. Snowe had given himself in service to the Kooluk in part due to his jealousy with Lazlo.

If you wish to correct me if I am wrong, please do. It would be highly appreciated.

Because if this pattern goes on, it is possible that Suikoden 6 could be a betrayal story of sorts.
Last edited by ninjaluc79 on Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.

User avatar
ninjaluc79
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: The Island Nations
Contact:

Re: Suikoden Plot Pattern?

Postby ninjaluc79 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:12 am

Though I have only played S2 (planning to play the others, though...), I only read their storylines and I saw a possible pattern in this series, except the spin-offs.

All of the games in the series involve a protagonist and his best friend (or something like that).

Suikoden 1 - Tir and Gremio - Young Master and Servant
Suikoden 2 - Riou and Jowy - Best Friends
Suikoden 3 - Hugo and Lulu - Best Friends
Suikoden 4 - Lazlo and Snowe - Best Friends
Suikoden 5 - Frey and Lyon - Prince and Knight

The odd-numbered Suikodens (1,3,5) invlove the pairs wherein the second person dies at a certain part of the game (or almost dies in Lyon's case).

The even-numbered Suikodens (2,4) involve the pairs wherein the second person actually defects to the antagonist army. Jowy had defected from the City-State to Highland when he killed Annabelle, until such time that he was now the King of Highland, pitted against Riou and the Dunan Unification Army. Snowe had given himself in service to the Kooluk in part due to his jealousy with Lazlo.

If you wish to correct me if I am wrong, please do. It would be highly appreciated.

Because if this pattern goes on, it is possible that Suikoden 6 could be a betrayal story of sorts.
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.

User avatar
Hirathien
Posts: 697
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:26 pm

Re: Suikoden Plot Pattern?

Postby Hirathien » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:05 am

Yes, the chances are so grave, it had to be a double post!

User avatar
ninjaluc79
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: The Island Nations
Contact:

Re: Suikoden Plot Pattern?

Postby ninjaluc79 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:52 am

Yeah, my PC's kinda laggy, so I accidentally double posted.
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.

User avatar
Hirathien
Posts: 697
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:26 pm

Re: Suikoden Plot Pattern?

Postby Hirathien » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:00 am

There's a hole in your theory about the plot pattern though! In Suikoden I and V, if you do stuff correctly you bring Gremio back to life, and in V you save Lyon from dying. As in Suikoden III, nothing happens with the death of Lulu (How this is a guys name i'll never know.)

User avatar
ninjaluc79
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: The Island Nations
Contact:

Re: Suikoden Plot Pattern?

Postby ninjaluc79 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:05 am

But at least they're alive after the game. Except that they lived in different circumstances. Nevertheless, based on my theory, Suikoden 6 will involve the hero's partner who will defect to the enemy army, the same way Jowy and Snowe did. Except that Jowy held half a true rune, Snowe did not.
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.

Iesous
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:44 am

Re: Suikoden Plot Pattern?

Postby Iesous » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:29 am

The other major problem with you theory is that Lulu is really not that important. Definitely not anywhere near as important as Lyon or Gremio.

However, the bigger problem is that this theory is completely ridiculous. We've had different writers throughout the series. They're not following an even-odd pattern of basic plotline. Anyone can make up any pattern if they pick and choose the right 'evidence'.

User avatar
Hirathien
Posts: 697
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:26 pm

Re: Suikoden Plot Pattern?

Postby Hirathien » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:53 pm

ninjaluc79 wrote:But at least they're alive after the game. Except that they lived in different circumstances. Nevertheless, based on my theory, Suikoden 6 will involve the hero's partner who will defect to the enemy army, the same way Jowy and Snowe did. Except that Jowy held half a true rune, Snowe did not.



I personally took it like Snowe was just a whiny lil' brat, just wanted to be liked, and be better than you. He even tried his hands at the Pirate life.

Jowy tried to take down Highland from within. They obviously didn't just defect.

User avatar
ninjaluc79
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: The Island Nations
Contact:

Re: Suikoden Plot Pattern?

Postby ninjaluc79 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:09 pm

I, for one, believe that Jowy had to defect to Highland so that he could destroy Luca Blight and Highland. He actually helped Riou kill Luca, and yet, personally, it still hurt me. But then I finally understood it after getting the good ending at one time.

3 things he did to gain Luca's trust:

1. He killed Anabelle, thus, he is Luca's inside person in Muse.
2. He took Greenhill for Luca with only 5000 men.
3. He helped Luca kill Agares so he (Luca) will become King.

NONETHELESS, he still helped Riou by helping Leon Silverburg inform Shu of Luca's night raid, leading to THAT bitch's death.

For S3, though Lulu isn't really that important in the story plot, as you say, you could see how important Lulu was to Hugo. I remembered seeing Hugo so angry at Yuber.

By the way, I heard about the father-and-daughter pair Jimba and Chris. And what about Geddoe and his gang? Any say about this one?
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.

User avatar
Nikisaur
Posts: 459
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:26 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Suikoden Plot Pattern?

Postby Nikisaur » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:21 am

Okay, I was going to leave this one alone, but...yeah. You can see patterns in anything, that doesn't mean that it will be followed. Especially with different writers and that. From the series as a whole, sure, but from game to game, I don't think so. There are things we can definately expect, as they have been constant/common in the series. Pretty much discount 3, because the perspective thing was weird and the baddies are Stars of Destiny anyway...

All Suikoden games have that main 'best friend' pair. Gremio may be Tir's servant, but it's obvious that they're close, and Gremio is a friend/big brother figure as well. Same goes for the Prince and Lyon, although their relationship was a bit more romantic. Friendship is a common theme in the series. Saving/reviving people is just about constant, as a 108 star bonus usually. You revive Gremio, Nanami, Lazlo and Lyon by getting all 108.

Betrayal has also occured in everygame, not just the even-numbered ones. Pahn sells out Tir in Suikoden 1, Jowy in 2, *mumblemumble* 3, Snowe in 4, and Sialeeds in 5. All of these people were close to the main character (left out Sanchez, coz he's just a random).

Sorry for the rant. But yeah, we can probably expect much of the same in terms of friendship/betrayal, as a constant theme rather than a game to game pattern.
The only thing Suikoden lacks...is dinosaurs.

User avatar
ninjaluc79
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: The Island Nations
Contact:

Re: Suikoden Plot Pattern?

Postby ninjaluc79 » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:18 am

Hahaha, I LOLed at *mumblemumble*, maybe I'll know about it once I play S3.

Come to think of it, I was used to FF during my early days as a gamer, but since at that time I was not able to appreciate its story as much as I appreciate gameplay, until I played Suikoden 2. Then I thought, wow, this game isn't just a game, it has a human side to it as well. And yeah, one of the human behaviors I noticed for the first time in S2 was, well, betrayal.

@Nikisaur You did say that betrayal occured in each Suikoden game, but I did mean that the 'best friend' did it in even-numbered Suikodens, not just anyone close to him. But nonetheless, betrayal IS one element in this kind of game.
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.

User avatar
Nikisaur
Posts: 459
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:26 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Suikoden Plot Pattern?

Postby Nikisaur » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:23 am

Yeah, Suikoden 3 IS kind of an exception...

Well, technically, Ted dies too. He is definately the best friend of the hero. And while Lyon is the Prince's bodyguard, they're probably best friends as well. So ya know. Kind constant.
The only thing Suikoden lacks...is dinosaurs.

User avatar
ninjaluc79
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: The Island Nations
Contact:

Re: Suikoden Plot Pattern?

Postby ninjaluc79 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:08 am

I am thinking of another theory. If I'm looking into a couple of trilogies then it would be:

1/4 - The hero gets to use the True Rune featured in the game, which is mainly an offensive magic type.
Tir had the Soul Eater, while Lazlo had the Rune of Punishment.

2/5 - The hero does not get to fully use the featured True Rune, but the rune has two aspects - supportive and offensive. The hero gets to use the former, while his friend gets to use the latter.
Riou had the Bright Shield Rune, the supportive aspect of the True Rune of the Beginning, while Jowy had the Black Sword, which is the offensive aspect.
The Sun Rune could be said to have two aspects as well, though presented as helper runes, that is, the Sun rune is unstable without its helper runes. These are the Dawn Rune, the supportive type helper rune, and the Twilight Rune, the offensive type helper rune. The Prince of Falena has the Dawn Rune, while Lyon has the Twilight Rune. But of course we know that the Twilight Rune had been borne by someone else before her, particularly Alenia and Sialeeds.

3/6(?) - Multiple heroes, multiple True Runes. They prove that the Hero does not necessarily have to be the Tenkai star.
S3 featured the five True Elemental Runes: True Fire (borne by Hugo), True Water (Chris), True Lightning (Geddoe), True Earth (Sasarai), and True Wind (Luc)
From this theory, it could be deduced that Suikoden 6 may present multiple True Runes borne by multiple heroes. And, you guessed it, it is possible that we have a non-Tenkai hero.
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.

User avatar
Hirathien
Posts: 697
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:26 pm

Re: Suikoden Plot Pattern?

Postby Hirathien » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:10 pm

Yeah, there's been one time a main guy haven't been the Tenkai.. That means its perfectly possible! Jesus, do you even look at those things? Just stick it into unjustified theories where they belong.

Iesous
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:44 am

Re: Suikoden Plot Pattern?

Postby Iesous » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:17 am

Like I said,
I wrote:Anyone can make up any pattern if they pick and choose the right 'evidence'.


Return to “Plotline Theories”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests