How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Detailed hypotheses for, and analysis of, the events transpiring during the Suikoden games
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Crowetron
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Re: How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Postby Crowetron » Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:14 am

Vermillion.Twilight wrote:Luca really only shined in his death...He lost every other time.


Someone is forgetting the refugee slaughter, and the fact that he successfully took...I dunno, 70% of Jowston before being stopped by our heroes. The only reason he "lost" every time he fought Riou was because if he had won, he would have murdered the impudent teenager who dared stand against him. Neclord would let us scurry away after a royal beating, but that was because he enjoyed toying with the heroes. Luca enjoyed killing people.

Had Luca won that final showdown, Riou would be dead and the story would be over. Had we faced Luca at any other time, and been meant to lose that fight, the writers would be hardpressed to find an excuse for the wounded heroes to escape without an act of god (or a very out-of-character action from Luca, who probably doesn't even realize "mercy" is a word).

Yes, Luca lost, but so did EVERY other Suiko villian, even that overrated pretty boy Yuber. The point is that no other baddie put up a fight even close to Luca's last stand, which is why he's unforgettable. If I, for example, stumbled across Gizel Godwin in a dark alley, I'd laugh in his face and keep walking. Had I met Luca in that same scenario, it'd be brown trousers time.

Luca Blight is not incredible because he won, which he didn't. He's incredible because of how much it took to make him lose.
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Silver Dragon Flik
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Re:

Postby Silver Dragon Flik » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:57 am

Yuber wrote:luca was hard as fark! thats why kids.


No he's not
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXedbsqAQls

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Re: How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Postby Baron » Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:41 am

I remember that i played that part with Luca for TWO WEEKS,I really hated him for that..hehe
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Re: How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Postby bench2hotty » Tue May 05, 2009 6:34 am

Kind makes me wonder on how powerful Luca would have been if he used the Beast Rune.
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Re: How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Postby Icegryphon » Tue May 05, 2009 1:05 pm

God I loved the graphics in Suikoden 2. Watching that video of the battle with luca...so phenomenal. The magical effects were absolutely fantastic.
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Re: How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Postby blah1017 » Tue May 05, 2009 3:40 pm

Luca Blight is the single most intimidating villain in this entire series. His strength just outmatches anything else we've seen really.

He was well trained, strong, and filled with so much hatred. That's how he fought wounded against 18 characters.

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Re: How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Postby Belcoot4 » Tue May 05, 2009 5:20 pm

Yes, Luca is the single most heinous villain throughout the series. I'd even put him up there with Sephiroth and Kefka the man is truley sick. Just to answer the topic at hand, Luca was definitly well trained, full of hatred, and had an unquenchable thirst for battle, those qualities plus a little determination is the perfect mix to take on an entire army by himself. I like to compare him to Tony Montana, Scarface, in the final scene he was so high on coke that he was even eating bullets. Also Luca possesed the Beast Rune which from what I've heard about that rune it very well could have fueled his soul to the ultimate end. I actually just did the battle with Luca (like 10th playthrough lol) and hes definitly not That difficult if your characters are up to par with their levels, I'd say mid 30's low 40's. Especialy if you did the Matilda trick theres no reason not to be prepared.
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Re: How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Postby Icegryphon » Tue May 05, 2009 5:46 pm

Sephiroth was one of the stupidest main villains of any game ever. What're you talking about? His character design and motivations were absolutely low-brow. He was a tall dude with a black coat on and a big sword...wow scary. Then his motivation was "I don't like the world, so I'll destroy it"...yeah that's great motivation.

Kefka was insane, he manipulated everyone and became God essentially.

Luca was insane, wanted to do an Apocalypse (see Marvel Universe) -style "survival of the fittest" kinda thing, and was nearly impossible to bring down.

Sephiroth isn't even in the same league as the other two.
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Re: How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Postby The fighting 108 » Fri May 08, 2009 12:30 am

So after reading through this and a couple of other threads, I went and watched the Luca boss fight (sadly I don't own and will probably never own S2). Wow, that was pretty insane! Kinda reminded me of some boss battles from Chrono Cross where the enemy just takes turn after turn and hammers the crap out of you before you can even go. Sort of frustrating really.

Icegryphon wrote:Sephiroth was one of the stupidest main villains of any game ever. What're you talking about? His character design and motivations were absolutely low-brow. He was a tall dude with a black coat on and a big sword...wow scary. Then his motivation was "I don't like the world, so I'll destroy it"...yeah that's great motivation.


I'd say Sephiroth's reasons are just as valid as any other villains. Sephiroth had an existential breakdown when he found out he was clone spawned from monster DNA. He figured he'd revive his mother and complete the original destruction of the world and become a god by absorbing all the energy such an event would release. At the very least he'd become a being similar to Jenova and wander the cosmos destroying worlds.

Kefka decided to destroy the world for the sheer heck of it, and made himself a god as an afterthought. It didn't seem like that nutcase had any plan at any point in the game.

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Re: How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Postby blah1017 » Fri May 08, 2009 8:06 am

Icegryphon wrote:Sephiroth was one of the stupidest main villains of any game ever. What're you talking about? His character design and motivations were absolutely low-brow. He was a tall dude with a black coat on and a big sword...wow scary. Then his motivation was "I don't like the world, so I'll destroy it"...yeah that's great motivation.

Kefka was insane, he manipulated everyone and became God essentially.

Luca was insane, wanted to do an Apocalypse (see Marvel Universe) -style "survival of the fittest" kinda thing, and was nearly impossible to bring down.

Sephiroth isn't even in the same league as the other two.


I'm not going to comment on Sephiroth as I haven't played FF7, but I find Kefka to be one of the most overrated RPG villains in gaming history. A lot of people use him as the go to character to try and bash Sephiroth, but Kefka isn't a particularly deep character either.

He had virtually no motivations for any of his actions, he's just a cookie cutter "I like to kill stuff" villain who does just that, kills stuff. The only thing making him interesting at all is that he actually does sort of succeed and attain god-like power. If the World of Ruin wasn't a part of FF6, Kefka would probably be one of the least liked villains in a game.

The only other thing I can think of is how comical he is, but that's not much a saving grace. He's just a mindless, self-serving killing machine, and seems like an utterly boring character in my honest opinion.

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Re: How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Postby Icegryphon » Fri May 08, 2009 12:09 pm

No, Kefka is not a "cookie cutter villain who likes to kill stuff". He's an insane megalomaniac who wants to become God...and succeeds. He's a genius who manipulates everyone to get his way...which is to become a God.

Sephiroth was a personality-less cliched-looking character who just wanted to kill everything. Making him cloned from monster dna just makes him more cliche. One of the worst villains in RPG history.

However, Luca, Jowy and Luc were all great villains. Luca was truly frightening, Jowy was a genius, and so was Luc. On top of that they both had true runes (well Jowy had half of one).
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Re: How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Postby The fighting 108 » Fri May 08, 2009 3:40 pm

Icegryphon wrote:No, Kefka is not a "cookie cutter villain who likes to kill stuff". He's an insane megalomaniac who wants to become God...and succeeds. He's a genius who manipulates everyone to get his way...which is to become a God.

Sephiroth was a personality-less cliched-looking character who just wanted to kill everything. Making him cloned from monster dna just makes him more cliche. One of the worst villains in RPG history.


I think we're getting a little off topic here with the FF characters, how about everyone agree to disagree before the topic gets locked up?

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Re: How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Postby blah1017 » Fri May 08, 2009 6:34 pm

Icegryphon wrote:No, Kefka is not a "cookie cutter villain who likes to kill stuff". He's an insane megalomaniac who wants to become God...and succeeds. He's a genius who manipulates everyone to get his way...which is to become a God.

Sephiroth was a personality-less cliched-looking character who just wanted to kill everything. Making him cloned from monster dna just makes him more cliche. One of the worst villains in RPG history.

However, Luca, Jowy and Luc were all great villains. Luca was truly frightening, Jowy was a genius, and so was Luc. On top of that they both had true runes (well Jowy had half of one).


Again, Kefka has no real motivations for his actions aside from wanting to kill more people. Being an insane guy with a god complex isn't good characterization, that's just lazy writing. He's like a poor man's Joker really. Also I feel like he didn't really manipulate anyone aside from Gestahl, who was a functionally retarded emperor anyway. He killed Leo, but that's more because of the edge he had with magic.

Kefka is basically: "KILL KILL MAGICITE MAGICITE KILL KILL SAND IN MY BOOTS KILL KILL." Boring. At least Luca has a background that's more interesting than "he has brain damage."

But that's really getting off topic anyway, so whatever.

Also I thought Luc was a really shoddy villain. Once the initial shock of him being a villain wore off I didn't feel for any of 3's villains. Aside from Yuber really.

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Re: How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Postby Icegryphon » Fri May 08, 2009 11:33 pm

And yet the Joker is widely believed to be the greatest villain of all time. So a poor man's Joker is still an insanely good villain.

And the point of this topic is to discuss villains and how they measure up against each other.
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Re: How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Postby JanusThePaladin » Sat May 09, 2009 3:29 am

That is an utterly rediculous statement Ice. You know as well as anyone that when someone uses a preamble of "the poor man's" its intended to be deprecating. It means a pathetic, worthless copy of it, hence why a poor man can afford it. So Kefka is a pathetic worthless copy of the Joker. I dont agree with this statement, however, this is what the poster previous to your meant.

In my opinion, Sephiroth is a better villain than Kefka, based on the fact that he was born powerful, to be the essential superbeing, and that he had a reasoning, a powerful, driving reasoning behind what he did. He had backstory, reason, and a connection with his villain. Kefka on the otherhand is a senseless character, with no provocation, and not all that impressive. He was able to latch on to a fool and control him, thats about it. I like Kefka as a villain, but Sephiroth is unquestionably a better put together character, and a more understandable villain.


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