How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Detailed hypotheses for, and analysis of, the events transpiring during the Suikoden games
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Lemmy Claypool
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Postby Lemmy Claypool » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:00 pm

Luca doesn't have a rune, nor is he fed any power by the Beast Rune. Everything else you listed seems likely, though.

NChisholm
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Postby NChisholm » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:09 pm

Okay, his strength was a culmination of things.

Insanity
Natural Strength
Seemingly constant adrenaline
His rune
Hunger for Power

For insanity yes.. that was a probable source,strenth..check.... , seemingly constant adreeline... could be from long term willing exposure to the beast rune[animal passion] he had no rune equipted though... so...... and hunger for power is a givin .........

Back to the idea of exposure.... if the Blue Moon rune is able to turn people into vamps by being in the general vicinity... the beast rune can corrupt a child[young Luca] and infuse him with its will..... maybe preparing him to be a viable host when released..... making him more beast then man
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demon eye
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Postby demon eye » Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:49 pm

The Blue Moon Rune only sustains the lives of vampires without them having to take human blood. It doesn't create vampires by being in its viscinity. You have to actually bear the Blue Moon Rune or be bitten by a vampire to become a vampire.

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Postby NChisholm » Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:59 pm

hmmm... your right... but the BMR can still extend its will into other beings.....what I was trying to say is that a true rune may be able to influence the world..and in this case Luca.... without neccecerely needing a bearer or a Rincar
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot- proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

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Lemmy Claypool
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Postby Lemmy Claypool » Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:12 pm

demon eye wrote:The Blue Moon Rune only sustains the lives of vampires without them having to take human blood. It doesn't create vampires by being in its viscinity. You have to actually bear the Blue Moon Rune or be bitten by a vampire to become a vampire.

According to one of the random Suiko-facts on Suikox being bitten by a vampire in the Suikoverse doesn't neccessarily make you a vampire.

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Moonbay
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Postby Moonbay » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:17 am

Lemmy Claypool wrote:
demon eye wrote:The Blue Moon Rune only sustains the lives of vampires without them having to take human blood. It doesn't create vampires by being in its viscinity. You have to actually bear the Blue Moon Rune or be bitten by a vampire to become a vampire.

According to one of the random Suiko-facts on Suikox being bitten by a vampire in the Suikoverse doesn't neccessarily make you a vampire.


I know myth and Suikoden usually don't mix, but the creators DO tend to use legends as inspiration, and there are a couple of legends about Vampires. One is the person has to die to become one--or it takes 3 bites to become one.

I don't know if that's what Konami had in mind--but it would explain Suikox's info.

Now--back to Luca.

Luca was insane, and sometimes the insane can endure more than other people. Also, when he fought--and especially killed--Luca had a rush of adrenaline. And adrenaline can block out all types of pain. Think about it. Ever find a bump on your leg or arm and have no idea how it got there? Adrenaline helps.

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Postby demon eye » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:28 am

That is true. It is as you say. You don't have to become a vampire once bitten, but you do have to be bitten by a vampire in order to be turned into one. So, it is basically the same thing. I'm just stating that you can't become a vampire just by being next to the Blue Moon Rune.

As for the Beast Rune affecting Luca..I don't believe that True Runes work that way. I believe they only use what is already innate to the person or we would be seeing a lot more True Rune bearers. I don't think Luca was affected by the Beast Rune at all. I believe he was just obsessed with avenging his mother and getting revenge for what happened to him. He then stumbled across a old Blight ritual that was more than likely passed on to them from Harmonia and learned of the ritual for unleashing the Beast Rune.

Luca was a killer. That is unarguable. If the Beast Rune wanted a killer it could have influenced anyone. I don't believe it influenced Luca at all. Now, I also don't believe Luca was insane or off his rocker either. I believe he was perfectly methodical and rational about what he did. He certainly wasn't a lunatic, just misguided. Remember that most mass murders are done and planned by rational and sensible men. Luca had a goal and he did whatever he could to achieve it.

And as for how he could stand up to 18 men. I believe it was strictly gameplay purposes only. Luca is the strongest warrior we have seen in the series by far, but not one single man can out last 18 if you think about it rationally, but then again this is a fictional tale.

So, for the sake of discussion I would say that his superior training aided him more than his blood lust or fervor in the heat of battle. They say that one highly trained and skilled soldier is worth a hundred lesser soldiers. Well, Luca is supposedly the best of the best. So, I argue that his skill is the most important attribute of his survival.

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Postby bloggs24 » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:24 am

i dont believe han training luca with the help of his rage is what made luca strong, i believe lucas strength was natural, han didnt build hes strength, he taught him how to use a sword, i mean common, did he have luca out in a court yard, pumping hes guns, with weights.
do you think, if luca was a little happy chap, under goign the same traing, would he be as strong as he is when hes insane, i say no, i say it was natural for his body to become more and more fit for killing, with his insanity causing it, thats how things evolve, if all land was gone, and humans were forced to live in the water, im sure sumwhere down the line, wed probably start growing gills or something, but instead hes body evolved really fast because of hes intense rage, so hed be able to overcome a challenge.
how many other humans in suikoden was as insane and filled with emotion as luca?

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Postby Wicked_Rune_Bearer » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:53 am

I don't understand why this subject puzzles so much people. His strength is an exaggeration of his lust of power and his postion of king. Think about it. It took 6 people to beat culgan and seed and they were just generals. The reason he was so strong (not only in the 18 character fight but also on the war front where he had an attack of I believe was 17 or 18 ) was to show how much he confidece he had in himself and the things he was setting out to do. Him beheading solon jhee a high powered wealthy general gone down the drain because he had enough confidence to think that he could easily win the war with out him. Him begining the unicorn-brigade massacre another way to show his confidence himself. It's not that he had deathly unimaginable powers it's just his status. A king who lusts for power at any means possissble. Now when you think about suikoden isn't the first game to exagerate a player like that is it.
A rpg-suikoden site that lets you choose your character and basically play suikoden on your computer as if it was on your ps console
http://z14.invisionfree.com/Suikoden_Legends

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Lemmy Claypool
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Postby Lemmy Claypool » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:32 am

Fair points you make there but your Culgan & Seed comparison doesn't really hold water. Six-on-two is far more fair than 18-on-one. And even then, with the odds stacked greatly in your favour, the Luca battle is a lot harder than the Culgan & Seed one. For instance, how often do you hear people asking for strategies for Culgan & Seed? :wink:

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Postby Wicked_Rune_Bearer » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:34 am

Well stated. I didn't think of that. even so you have never been in a battle against 6 highland generals versus 2 of your generals. so to be able to distingush their actual power isn't possissble but you can't just say that they weren't also strong cause they were not only on 6 on ? but the war front as well. But luca like I said is Just a power hungry king willing to give his life to see his flames reach the heavens
A rpg-suikoden site that lets you choose your character and basically play suikoden on your computer as if it was on your ps console

http://z14.invisionfree.com/Suikoden_Legends

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Liam
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Postby Liam » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:58 am

To be totally honest I don't even think they needed 18 characters to beat Luca. It was rather a good planing by Shu who used 3 teams to cut his escape options short.

After his White Wolves went down Luca tried to flee, but he finded his path blocked by a grup of strong warriors, so He had to turn back and find another way out.

Only way that wasn't blocked by members of DUA was one that led to the blind alley.

Remember that Luca never kills one of your mates, but was forced back every single time
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ShardStar
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Postby ShardStar » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:44 am

Yeah so it isn't so much because Luca is strong but that they wanted him isolated from his army, alone and vulnarable.

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Postby blue-moon-rune » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:49 am

luca is a blood thirsty beast and would try to do any thing to battle start a war or kill .he is more thirst for blood than i am only :twisted: jokin

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Moonbay
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Postby Moonbay » Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:15 pm

Liam wrote:To be totally honest I don't even think they needed 18 characters to beat Luca. It was rather a good planing by Shu who used 3 teams to cut his escape options short.

After his White Wolves went down Luca tried to flee, but he finded his path blocked by a grup of strong warriors, so He had to turn back and find another way out.


I just played that part, and all I have to say is:

He walked away with 2 arrows sticking in him! :lol:

And when Riou finally defeats him, he says something about whatever had driven him was finally leaving his body. The boy definitely had a blood lust--and yes, one person can stand up to 18 people. He may not look as good as he did going in--but it can be done.
Playing Suikoden III......


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