How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

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How could Luca fight wounded against 18 characters?

Postby Maldonado » Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:38 am

Duell between Luca Blight and Hero was one of the most interesting parts of Suikoden 2. But as everybody probably noticed, Luca was wounded all the time. He took two arrows before he fought face-to-face with the strongest men in Liberation army. But how could a wounded man fight against 18 other men and beat them all, just to be killed by a child few minutes later? A strongest warrior in Highland, beast on the battlefield, man who drinks blood of his enemies, killed by a teenager while 18 other grown-up men couldn't beat him? Maybe they wore him out, so by the time he faced Hero he was already tired and he lost too much blood? How strong that guy was?! :roll:
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Postby Fliktor » Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:28 am

He was the strongest human being in the Suikoden world. He didn't use a rune. His fire attack was item-based.

The reason why it took so long to beat him was just to emphasise how strong he actually is. The last duel was when Luca had been shoot with arrows, beaten up, shoot with more arrows, beaten up, shot again, beaten up, pelted with a large folley of arrows. So yes, he was amazingly worked down (I'm sure I put in too many arrow folleys there, but you get the picture!). Riou was also very strong and had a half of a True Rune, so fighitng against a very weakend Luca, allowed him to beat him once and for all.
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Postby RageRune » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:17 pm

I think the Beast Rune had something to do with his strength. Since he was craving to kill the Jowstonians he must have become some kind of uber human or something like that. hence why you had to have 3 parties attack him.

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Postby Vextor » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:55 pm

Although it's natural to think the Beast Rune game Luca his power (I mean, that's sort of the theme of the Beast Rune), Murayama has stated that Luca's strength comes from himself only.

To take some info from the short stories anthologies, Luca was already powerful when he was 13 years old. He single-handedny wiped out a group of ruffians (the same one who attacked the Highland convoy and raped his mother). He has also been trained by Han Cunningham.

Luca only started paying attention to the Beast Rune after he was already powerful, too.
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Postby koriand'r » Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:05 pm

Its a known fact that people are far more dangerous both physically and mentally when driven by sheer hate or determination, which can result in some cases of superhuman strength. (One example where two american brothers tore a car door off to save a man's life, though to note as well that those who achieve superhuman status can never use it again due to exhaustion). Luca simply represents an exaggeration of that fact.

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Postby Red Killey » Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:39 pm

Superhuman power that you're talking about is quite different than Luca's though. Your superhuman power is gained only from either hate or determination, whereas Luca gained his power from intense training. While he was driven by hate as well, the training part would be the one with the larger role that made Luca strong.
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Postby Maldonado » Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:11 am

Well, I agree that his strenght was a result of an intense and insane training he had during the years. But I doubt he was so powerful by the age of 13 that he could've killed a whole gang of ruffians that raped his mother. I think he was younger then, 8 or 9 years old, so there's no way he could've beaten them. It was Han who saved him and the queen. And not to mention the fact that a large amount of psychological damage was inflicted on him then. Your psychological status can also affect your physical abilities, so after all that pain and fear he suffered he must've changed drastically as a person. His was driven by lust for revenge, and that lust also kept him going through all his training he forced himself through in order to gain strenght for his revenge. While his insanity, of course, gave him additional strenght. However, it's hard to imagine that someone could be as powerful as 20 trained soldiers.
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Postby Fliktor » Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:01 am

Han rescued Luca and his mother, but Luca tracked the bandits himself and killed them all. It's official.
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Postby Maldonado » Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:31 pm

Well, if you say it's official, I guess I'll have to believe you...He always had this thing for revenge.
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Postby Jowy Atreides » Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:39 pm

Luca has around 18,000 hit points, total. Han, his master, has less than a thousand.

Even with the differences between systems, I'd say that Luca is superior to Han.
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Postby RageRune » Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:57 pm

So then Luca could've gained all that strength from training and not the Beast Rune. Does that mean the determination to conquer just came from his mother's rape or is it the fact that he hated his father for his mom's rape as well as Agares considering a truce with Jowston?

One more thing, if the Beast Rune did'nt give him that strength then why is his eyes all white like that???

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Postby Maldonado » Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:10 pm

I'm sure he hated his father because he allowed that to happen to his mother. Don't forget the fact that Luca was actually a psycho, which means he could be terribly strong even without his Rune.

By the way, I have to disagree with that thing you said about his eyes, RageRune. His eyes are not actually white. He's got tiny black dots in the corner of his eyes, but on his portrait he's looking on one side so it's a little bit hard to notice. Take a look at my avatar a bit more carefully and I'm sure you'll see it.
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Postby InuZamza » Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:04 pm

I made that same mistake about his eyes hehe then I looked closer and noticed they in the corner as Maldonado said.

And hey if you look at Luca's armor it looks very thick and more than one layer... So of the volley of arrows fired at him, probably not all of them were able to pierce through the armor. He did act like the ones in his back did nothing.. then again could be caused by blind rage and determination as argued.

I really loved this part showing how it took hundred to kill the great Luca when he killed thousands heh.

And although it does seem weird that Riou just a lad was able to take down Luca.. as others metione Riou has a rune and Luca was weakened, etc...

Though it could be possible that maybe it was the arrows already in him that killed him.. Posion arrows that take half a minute or so to get into the bloodstream or somehthing. Probably not it as there was no proof of poisoning the arrows or anything. Rious has the bright sheild rune..so probably would do same as I made him do, Defend.. and then when Luca came he easily blocked and counter strike just weakening the great Luca furthur till he has his last speech..
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Postby Red Killey » Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:20 pm

Jowy Atreides wrote:I personally disagree with you Killey. When you fought Luca in three groups he had (roughly) 18,000 hit points. When you duel Han at L'Renouille he had (estimate) 700-900 hit points. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the training helped out a lot too, but I don't see how a pupil can be staggeringly more powerful than his master without something else fueling his power. My personal believe is that more of his power came from pure hatred and determination than intense training.

Note: Luca and Han's hit points are estimates, but you get the general idea.

Never ever use HP (a gameplay element) to say one is stronger than the other (a storyline element).

Not to mention that even your comparison highly flawed. Comparing HP of duel to HP of normal battle is just not right. Think about it this way, when fighting Sonya in S1, she had more than 1,000 HP easily, why? Because during a 6 on 1 normal battle, the player could easily deal thousands of damage per turn. On the other hand, duel against Teo, he had definitely less than 1,000 HP. Why? Because it was one on one duel, and only Tir could deal damage with his physical attack. That's why Teo got lower HP than Sonya. But does that mean Teo is weaker than Sonya? I don't think so.

Last but not least, to say that Luca had 18,000 HP is still wrong because he only had around 6,000 HP. It's just that we fought him 3 times, not that he tripled his HP. To prove this, even if you never inflicted any damage to him during the first two units battle, he'd still have around 6,000 HP when Riou's party fought him, and definitely not 18,000 HP.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that Han is stronger than Luca. But your reasoning is wrong. Though Luca is the strongest human that we know, Han was definitely still up there when it comes to fighting skills.
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Postby Maldonado » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:31 am

I agree that Han is deffinitly more skilled and experienced then Luca. And what you said about his armor...yeah, it's quite possible it could prevent the arrows from killing him instantly. But he had two arrows in his shoulder as he fought, they must've hit him right on the spot where the chest plate meets shoulder pads (which leaves a little bit of open space for an arow to strike). And he didn't even pay atention to that. Was it his strenght or the rush of adrenalin that made him act like that? :roll:
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