It has Highland and Harmonia to the north, Toran to the south, Grasslands to the west and the great ocean to the east. No costal towns on the east side of Dunan though. Same thing applies to Toran, the only difference is that there is a river leading down to Gregminster. Yes ship travel is obviously faster than walking on foot, but keep in mind that Viktor and Flik went through a scorching desert. The Banner Village route seems much more appealing.
As far as the formationof Dunan, there simply is no information on how it evolved into a monarchy. That means, there's no information on whether a group of villages or twons ggradually grew into a monarchy.
True, I just tried to make sense of it all, so I tried relating it to what the most likely rl situation would be like.
Back to the point, what I am saying is that it was probably a lot more easier for Harmonia to occupy and maintain control of Toran. Their main foothold there was Gregminster (which was called Rupand back when Harmonia ruled it), which as you say, is easy to get to from the sea. Dunan has no coast whatseover. It's east side is completely mountainous, and there is no evidence that there are any ports or passageways--especially for any sort of military operations.
Actually, it's not a mere river that cuts into the Gregminster area, you have a huge area of sea that goes in towards Toran. That's why you have a bustling smuggler trade in Toran Lake because it is connected to the outer sea.
Yea I get that completelly and I don't question why they took over Toran, but what I'm interested in is why they didn't just use foot soldiers and cavalrty to take over Dunan. As apparent, Highland and Harmonia are seperated by plains as are Highland and Dunan, so it would have been a flat march. It makes no sense that Harmonia would travel through mountains to take over grasslands and send a whole armada to Toran yet skip taking over their next-door neighbour. Kinda wierd.
Is the sea cutting into Gregminster on the map on your site????
Speaking of that map, you gonna do an update any time soon? Even a spoiler free one?
It's hard to imagine why Harmonia didn't invade Dunan, we simply don't know. All we know is that they didn't invade them, and that they did have Toran under their control centuries ago. This means that Harmonia wanted to keep Toran under control for some reason that is beyond what is currently known to fans. Everything else is conjecture. As far as why they invaded Grassland, as the games explain, is is purly in order to get true runes, which is what Harmonia wishes to gain at all cost. In turn, they may not have been interested in Dunan because there is no traditional presence of True Runes in that area.
As far as updating the map, the map is as updated as it can be, barring what would be spoilers for suikoden 4. I don't see what else can be updated besides what is already on the map (beside the location of Falena).
You actually know where abouts Falena is? I mean position wise, not just south of Island Nations.
As for Harmonia.....its kinda strange that if they're that desperate, why aren't they making more of an effort to retrieve the runes. They have the HVG under their thumb as well as a MASSIVE army and all the knowledge of Crystal Valley. Surelly they could obtain more runes than they have in posession.
I'm sure they'd have to be subtle in order to make things easier. Keep your head down and it makes everyone forget about you. They wouldn't want a combination of the whole known Suikoden world forming a massive army in retalliation for their "treasure hunting".
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Hmmmm, good point. But aren't the members of the HVG usually sole assasins/guardians capable of doing a mission under cover? And as from what we've seen Harmonia seems to have a FAR larger army than all the countries put together thus far. Guess Konami has to leave something for the future Suikodens though, and for all we know there are possibly spies on the lookout for runes at the times of war that we just aren't aware of.
Although Harmonia has a huge army, they also have many political in-fighting, which makes it difficult for them to be efficient in pursuing their goals.
Although the HVG is technically a part of the Harmonian military, they are almost autonomous, and have their own agenda. In the military hierarchy, they are directly under the Bishops, meaning that they are not under the influence of nobles and other members of the 1st/2nd class citizen armies. However, some HVG members and even elders are secretly connected to the nobles, and at times conduct operations against the Temple.
As far as Falena's location, no one knows their exact location.
Surely there would be those in the HVG that to further increase their power within Harmonia would do favours for the Bishops. If I recall correctlly there were such past incidents, which is why the HVG has such status within Harmonia. Assign a HVG member per true rune and you'd have 27 minus the 5 Harmoina already has.....so 22 HVG members searching the world for runes. Would seem reasonable if Harmonia wanted the runes that much......and HVG members work solo for most part so that wouldn't be a problem. Mind you giving the HVG full access to all the remaining true runes would be true if the second part of your statement is true, as they could use that power against the Temple and sieze control of Harmonia.
HVG does assign their agents to hunt for True Runes. However, they have largely been unsuccessful. Wyatt Lightfellow was once pursued by more than one HVG agents, but he managed to evade them. Similarly, Nash was assigned (although he's an Ex-member) to look for True Runes in Dunan, but he basically fails his mission when he puts his own priorities ahead of his orders.
Although the HVG may be excellent killers, they are not particularly known for being able to detect the presence of True Runes or for any sort of knowledge in sorcery. That may be one reason why thay have been largely unsuccessful. Added to that, even the Temple fears the HVG to a certain degree, and there's probably a lot of politics that go into making such requests. It's not the case where the Temple can simply issue orders to the HVG to look for True Runes, although it would seem so according to hierarchy.
Yea, guess they are more capable at assasinating.......even though they could just snipe and steal the rune........but tracking stuff down would probably be more of a Richmond kinda category.
Kinda ironic though since Clive has been around a few people with True Runes. Guess as the new leader, Harmonia could approach him as he would have somewhat of inside information, but I think he'd be pissed at anyone connected to and especially the elders, for the plot against Elza and Kelly.
hey dud's i think that location of falena is alredy now, i don't remenber were i see the map but in some plaised i saw the wole map of suikoden, harmonia to the norht, zexen and grassland to the west, dunan to the east in conection wiht the big occean in his right side and toran to the shout, and under toran it was the unification island to the lefth of the island it was a big island now as gaien and finaly to the souht of all the island's it was fallena in a continent all apart.
hey i im not 100% sure because idon't now if was a oficcial map or a fan art
don't think that what i said is oficcial maybe im all wrong
Agares personal body guards whoul kill Luca, Also. Killin his own father would make the people disrespect him and dont trust him and rebellions would come after that.
Heck I should know, living in country being a kingdom for 1200 years.
Jowy wonted to reunite Dunan, and it was his goal from the start. Whitnesing strenght and brutality of Highland army Jowy realised that there is only one way to achive his ultimate goal, and that is by brute force. In his eyes only way He could do it was to become King of Highland and defeat City State, uniting them with Highland with him on the throne as The King.
Problem was that both Agares and Luca were in His way so He needed to murder them both. First He used Luca's hate towards Agares to help him, and then He betried Luca during his Night Ride.
One thing is for sure, and that is that Jowy planed to kill Luca even before He murdered Agares.
P.S. Han Cunningham was defender of L'Renouville, but it wasn't by his choice. Either King Agares or later Luca could send him to battle, but didn't. Agares trusted just two man Han and Kiba, and wonted one of them allways close to him (Han). Luca might kept him far from the battle to show his gratitude to the man that saved his and Sara's life.
If Luca planned to kill Agares by force, He would expect revolt by some of Generals that were loyal to Agares, and would murder them even before Agares, so He wouldn't have rebelion to deal with
Last edited by Liam on Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
Liam O'veigh, The best swordsman in all Evergreen, beater of Maldon and bodyguard of queen Rose
im pretty sure it was jowys idea to kill the king in the way that they did, and i remember in the game, that sum 1 said, jowy gave himself small dosis of the poison, building up a tolerance to it.
and about why luca just didnt put a knife in agres back, is the exact same reason he didnt just take a squad down an break the treaty himself at the start of the game, as though he doesnt seem like it, luca is a very smart character, you should be able get the point im making there
