Thats like saying that saimese twins connected at the hip are the same person, not 2 different people.

And back to the Sword and Shield Runes. Like Raww said, the Runes are intended to be complete opposites and constantly at war with one another, so the idea that they could combine their powers is absurd.

As for the question on why Earth and Fire can combine, or Wind and Water, you may notice that opposites are unable to combine, Fire CANNOT combine with Water. This has to do with the classical view on the 5 elements, and the prevalent theory that Earth compliments Fire, and that Water and Wind are akin. Atleast that is my understanding, someone please correct me if i am wrong.

Hm basically, yes. But in the best ending of Suikoden II iirc the struggle between the two runes/aspects of the true Rune of Beginning ends. I don't really remember if Jowy and Riou lose their two Runes or what happens... but basically a Unite coold be possible afterwards (if there were any battles, that is to say)

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||Suikoversum.de - The German Suikoden-portal||

Best excuse onto why they don't unite.

Its because they are the same rune. Fire and Fire. Water and Water they don't combine do they?

Check and mate on that one. You could argue that they have different powers sure but they are different aspects of the same rune.

Like of Flowing and water are from the true water rune they still don't combine. its slightly different but the idea is still there.

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I'm a fan but I'm also a critic. Without preasure to improve stagnation is the future. Do not accept lackluster because of your enjoyment of the overall picture. Criticism is needed for improvement to be made.

Of course they don't have a unite attack. The Bright Shield and Black Sword runes are different from the Dawn and Twilight/Dusk runes, which I am assuming is the reason this topic was even made. In essence they are the same rune, it seems like a test and the one who survives between the Bright Shield and the Black Sword will gain the Rune of Beginning.

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Sandalphon - Senso Suikoden

the "combined attack" is shown in the complete ending of Suikoden II - the Rune of Beginning appears as a whole rune and heals Jowy from the brink of death.

As I recall, The Creation story is that the runes was only one rune first -then 2, then more, so runes are fragments of other higher runes (that has split). birthed fragmented runes are often opposites.

And that runes can combine , with its split pieces. or assist each other.

To have the polar opposites combine (fire with water), you seem to need the pieces of that series. All other elements needed, to convince water & fire into combining (or assist each other).

I don't think the black sword rune and bright shield rune having a unite attack is really strange. At least it wouldn't be after the events of Suikoden 2. The runes started as one rune. The Rune of the Beginning. When you get the canon ending of Suikoden 2, we see the 2 runes temporarily merge together to form the ruin of beginning to heal Jowy. Also in one of the non perfect endings we see Jowy die and the rune of beginning forms together and Riou becomes it's bearer.

Both of these endings support that the 2 halves of the rune can be united again. I think the whole forcing the bearers to fight each other is a test of the runes themselves. The bearers are chosen. The test is to see if they can break the curse or kill each other. If they can break the curse and the 2 bearers can end the cycle of fighting, the true power of the rune of the beginning will be awakened and grant the bearers would be able to access that power when in close proximity to each other. Also I think this would grant both the bearers the usual immortality (not aging after they reach a certain age). Considering both halves of the gate rune give Leknaat and Windy this, it seems logical that once the power of the rune of the beginning is awakened, that the bearers of the Bright Shield Rune and Black Sword Rune would also be given immortality as well. I believe however if one or both of them were to be killed, the cycle would begin again and the new bearers wouldn't be able to access the full power of the rune of the beginning. We have seen other runes with similar natures. The Rune of Punishment for example has 2 phases. It starts out consuming the lives of it's bearers. But as we saw Lazlo managed to overcome the curse of the rune. I think the curse is the rune's way of trying to find a bearer it belongs with. Not only is Lazlo strong enough to be able to withstand using the rune's life draining power, he proves to the rune that he has no desire for power and only wishes to use it to help others. I think once Lazlo proved himself to the rune, it saw him a worthy bearer and decided to no longer drain the life out of him. Considering the nature of the true runes and how they are considered sentient beings, it is very possible other true runes could behave in similar ways.

So if we see Jowy and Riou in a future game. There is no reason they can't have a rune unite attack. Though I think the odds of seeing them in a future game as playable characters is pretty slim.

Their ultimate "intent" is to judge war, and perhaps if possible to become one. Their mechanisms for achieving both those objectives is combat. So, War, as you implied is not its intent, judging war however is, a much higher echelon on the list; judgment is their design and war is their method, or perhaps weapon would be a more suitable choice of word, achieving that end.

Moreover, if and when, the 2 runes ever do become one someday, a least in the form of the ROB, the rune should have new magic attacks, perhaps similar in scope to its' predecessors, but not merely an amalgamated integration of the 2 runes' magic, that would just be lazy on the part of the game designers

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With that Rune, you must realize that a harsh fate awaits you. Fortunately though, I can see that you have friends who care about you.
~ Lino En Kuldes


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7Ry1WmNMNg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GH6m0gQmLc

That's the power of the Rune of the Beginning, not the parts intents.


That is their only intent, and they achieve thus by pitting two friends against each other until one kills the other. To have a combined attack would thusly be stupid.


No such thing was implied. A fight between two people does not constitute a war.


Nothing suggests the runes want to do this, it's merely stated that the owner of the Rune of the Beginning will have the power to judge war. This is not related to anything the Black Sword and Bright Shield do.

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Doctorum Non Urina Singulus.

That is their only intent, and they achieve thus by pitting two friends against each other until one kills the other. To have a combined attack would thusly be stupid.



How can you say the runes only intent is to pit them against each other so the rune can merge? If that was the case then the 2 halves would have probably merged long ago. For all we know it was looking for 2 people who were worthy enough to wield the power of the runes. If that is the case then it stands to reason they could in fact have a combined attack. I think the only reasons the game doesn't have them is because 1. you only have the level 4 spells together for 1 battle 2. It would make the one battle rediculasly easy. Hell it is easy enough as is.

By virtue of playing the game and being able to understand the plot rather than just have it pass through.

http://www.suikosource.com/history/truerunes/

bearers of these two runes are bound by the rune's power to fight against each other until only one survives to win the other component

From the ending:

"Our two runes... together... they make a True Rune. But... if you use it by itself... it takes your life."

Basically, I pay attention.


We already know that that's not the case so no.

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Doctorum Non Urina Singulus.

According to Old Book 2 (Suikoden I):

As far as it was explained you need only harmony to have a combined rune attack, but what is harmony? It is not defined anywhere, it is up to interpretations and there's two possible interpretations:

- runes as opposites - the black sword and the bright shield are opposites, like fire and water, therefore there inst harmony.
- runes as complementary - the black sword and the bright shield make something together, if they can make something then there is harmony in their use together.

I dont think there is a correct answer to this, both make sense, therefore I think this is the best option to let the possibility open. If you want it is possible, if you dont want than it isnt.

I just realised I haven't posted my opinion on this! I've been reading it for long enough...

In my opinion- I always saw the two halves combined power (not exactly an attack) being healing Jowy/bringing him back from death's door. As they cause the bearers to confront eachother, a combined power/attack (or whatever you want to call it) kind of goes against the whole idea of having the two halves in the first place. Especially when they represent the conflict that began the universe and all the other true runes. Unless of course, as above, in the case of the two bearers overcoming their inevitable conflict, and thus the power of the two halves of the rune. Which would be epic enough to counter-act the epicness of the legend surrounding the rune.

Also- Rezard, I think, as is obvious in my previous statement (^Up thur^), that harmony would tend to mean making something together. Harmonious/complementary to me, sound pretty much the same. Where as opposites seem to exist to create an equilibrium by balancing eachother out, rather than work together towards the same goal.

...That all sounded a bit wanky, didn't it? Bah, I'm not re-reading it. That's how it came out of my head...

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The only thing Suikoden lacks...is dinosaurs.

if two rune bearers of opposing runes manage to not fight each other and fight as one then maybe they could both unleash the power of the two runes when combined.

in the end Konami decides on these stuffs.

When I thought about the Bright Shield and Black Sword unite attack, I made this very crappy animation with pivot. The thing elevating that monster is the shield and then it flies up with a high speed then it crashes with the sword causing huge explosion with lots of energy blasting all around and it can´t be seen in the animation, but I also thought, that the shield and sword could shatter in to pieces and those pieces could also fall down on the enemy/enemies and damage them even more.