The soul eater, the rune of life and death.

Detailed hypotheses for, and analysis of, the events transpiring during the Suikoden games
Addepadde
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The soul eater, the rune of life and death.

Postby Addepadde » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:16 pm

The Soul Eater has been a questionmark for me...

I don't know if this already been stated or if this forum contains the same theory.
Don't really now if this is the right board either.. But I'll give a try.

But what do you we know about it?

Its the Rune och life and death and takes the souls of those who are close to its "host".
It have the ability (if needed) to end life very fast, bringing destruction...

What are my theories?
We have seen the soul Eater take numeros souls, both from S1 and S4.
From S1 it were Teo,Odessa, Gremios and Teds.
Havent played the fourth.

But how can it be claimed to steal soles of those who are close to its host?
My theorie is that the Soul Eater itself can change the "wave of life".
Meaning that it wont just curse the host but the people close to him, working like Karma, it will change the life of those.

Maybe, Teo's, Gremio's , Ted's and Odessas deaths was declaired that moment when Tir accepted the Rune?

In that case, when Ted had the rune, were Tirs life in danger?

Another thing I just can't get out of my head is that.


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(Update)
We know that the bright shield and black sword are destinyed to fight eachother. Like in Han vs Genkaku and Riou vs Jowy.
Lets call this effect a "curse".
Maybe the soul Eater gives a curse to those who are close and engaging the bearer.
The soul eater are considered to be a god, and it dont seems to unlikley that it would be able to chance the life of peoples. But this "power" wouldn't it make the Soul Eater one of the most powerful runes?
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It have "eaten" the soles of those close to Ted, then after being given to Tir, it seems to have lost its powers? And need to eat the soles of Tirs companions in order to regain its power?
Last edited by Addepadde on Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The soul eater, the rune of life and death.

Postby King Krimson » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:51 am

Well from what i have notice most True Runes seem to lose their powers whenever they change hosts.
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Re: The soul eater, the rune of life and death.

Postby JanusThePaladin » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:52 pm

I think that has more to do with game play then story line. After all, Ted used to walk along battlefields absorbing the souls of the recently dead like some sort of valkyre. Anyway, its an interesting theory, especially since all the Suikodens seem to revolve around changing fate.

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Re: The soul eater, the rune of life and death.

Postby Addepadde » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:58 pm

Updated the first post a bit.


After the war against the scarlet moon empire, Tir runs away.
Why?
Could it be that he manage to unlock this secret about the rune? and if he'd continnued his friends life would be in danger?

Next time we meet Tir is in S2 (If S1 is loaded).
What have changed?
The biggest change that I've seen is that during S2 , Tir almost never speaks. He had flee'd to a lonley life. Why?
Maybe Tir don't want anyone to get close enough, so their lifes will be spared because of the Soul eater?

-----

Yes the runes loses power when they change host. But the soul eater absorbs souls to gain power. What happnend to the souls afterwards? Does they just vanish?

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Re: The soul eater, the rune of life and death.

Postby JanusThePaladin » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:57 pm

I think more the gaining of power had to do with Tir's own mastery of the Rune as well as the absorbtion of souls.

Also Gremio states something to the effect of Tir choosing his lonely life because of the runes power, but that Gremio doesnt think the rune itself is evil.

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Re: The soul eater, the rune of life and death.

Postby WichitaQ » Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:20 pm

tir couldn't have been in danger because it was stated that Ted somehow found a way to control it so it doesn't take anymore souls, that's why he could be friends with Tir in the first place.

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Re: The soul eater, the rune of life and death.

Postby KFCrispy » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:05 pm

i don't think the rune itself loses power, but the user can only handle so much from the true rune until the bearer gets stronger or fulfills requirements from the rune. for Soul Eater, as McDohl accumulated the souls of his loved ones, he as able to use more power from the Soul Eater.

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Re: The soul eater, the rune of life and death.

Postby JanusThePaladin » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:24 pm

Luc sort of implies the same thing in S3, when he talks about how surprising the new flame champion can use the fire rune so effectively.

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Re: The soul eater, the rune of life and death.

Postby Wolf Kanno » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:13 am

I do believe the Rune purposely changes the fate of those around the host to kill them. It seemed pretty apparent in Suikoden IV when Ted kept trying to avoid Aldo, and then Aldo's ending states he died a mysterious death, so I feel their is weight to the theory that the Rune curses those around it's bearer. Which is why it's probably nicknamed the Cursed Rune.

If you think about it, the curse of the Soul Eater is that it forces it's bearer into an eternal life of solitude, because it kills all those around it.

The Rune of Beginning forces two friends to fight each other.

The True Elemental Runes try to overwhelm their bearer's mind so they can have their powers released and expressed.

The Rune of Punishment kills it's owner.

The Sun Rune causes madness and a god-complex, but basically it's doing the exact same thing as the Elemental Runes and simply wishes to be expressed and used.

The Blue Moon Rune turns the owner into a vampire and causes an insatiable bloodlust until it is mastered.

All the True Runes are cursed, though god knows what the Gate Rune and Dragon Rune cause for the wearer...
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Re: The soul eater, the rune of life and death.

Postby eldrasidar » Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:03 am

I'm pretty sure you're reading into this a lot more than what is there. I don't think any of the true runes are 'cursed.' Rather the power they contain requires a skilled user to wield effectively. The reason many people with true runes are unsuccessful is because they aren't mentally/strong or stable enough to wield a true runes power. all the true runes present a challenge to their users, some of whom succeed at that challenge, others who do not. The rune of punishment for example, kills a lot of its users, until Lazlo learns to calm it. Likewise, of all the elemental true rune users, only luc goes nuts, suggesting a flaw in luc, not the rune. The Blue Moon rune doesn't have any real effect on Sierra once she masters it, but it turns Neclord into a monstrous fiend.

The reason many of the long term true rune bearers tend to be loners has less to do with a true rune's instability or destructive powers, but rather the inherent consequences of being a true rune bearer. For one thing, you will live forever, while everyone and anything you ever know or care about will die around you. For another thing, you are essentially wielding a nuclear weapon, which you may set off by accident or even on purpose, or which someone else may wish to trigger.

This creates what I'd call a Doctor Who complex. On the one hand, you can be incredibly helpful and productive, and be a great force for good, but on the other hand, you naturally attract danger to you, and can yourself become immensely destructive at times, becoming an equally great force for bad. It's easy to see why many of the long term rune bearer's tend to be very solitary and/or introverted people. They simply cannot afford to be be otherwise in order to safeguard their rune's power.

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Re: The soul eater, the rune of life and death.

Postby Wolf Kanno » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:52 am

Well, the Soul Eater and the Rune of Punishment are considered cursed in their respective games and god knows Ted wants to get rid of it in IV despite the fact staying on the Fog Ship will still give him the immortality part, so I don't think it's a simple matter of just "Immortality sucks". Ted vehemently tries to not get attached to anyone and as we see in Suikoden I, the Soul Eater's power that the bearer can use, are directly linked to souls that carry an emotional attachment to the bearer, so I don't feel it's far fetched to believe the rune purposely targets those closest to the rune bearer.

Though it's apparent that mastery over the rune may negate this problem as the TC theorized. Its not like Ted in Suikoden I has problems being around Tir and his family, likewise, Ted's Grandfather has no issues running a small village but then again, considering his age, he may not have had the Rune for very long.

I also find it's more than just a coincidence that not only does the True Rune of Punishment assault it's bearer with memories of previous owners and tries to goad the user into using it, but it also just seems a little too convenient that anytime someone seems to get the Rune, suddenly, a situation arises that calls for the rune to be used, which then promptly ends with their death. Perhaps it's just poor writing, but it's possible the rune itself simply alters the bearers fate to throw them into situations that require the rune to be used. I mean fate is kind of one of the underlying themes of the series...

Suikoden II flat out states the Rune of Beginnings forces the bearers of the Bright Shield Rune and Black Sword Rune to fight each other, so it's power to slightly affect fate or choose hosts with the correct criteria is pretty obvious.

The Elemental Runes are stated by Geddoe when he explains them to Hugo. Luc I believe gives a similar speech about the Runes desire to be used as well, though my memory of the game plot is fuzzy from not playing it for awhile. The Manga adaption elaborates far more into it and it's shown in the manga that they do in fact assault the bearers mind in order to have their power released. The True Fire Rune haunts Hugo's mind with the Flame Champion's memories and if Hugo gets too wound up in them, the True Fire Rune releases it's power. The biggest moment being in Volume 9-10, when Hugo is haunted by the Dharma Future that Luc shows him and the Rune nukes Hugo's room in Budehuc Castle. Geddoe makes a comment both in the manga and in the game if you choose him to be the FC that he has already seen the bleak future, so the True Runes have tried similar ploys. The Sun rune also seems to warp it's bearers mind unless the Dawn and Twilight Rune are there to calm it down.

While the idea of these runes being "cursed" is not as likely, it is still pretty obvious from some of the source material that none of the True Runes make their hosts life a pleasant one, if even the elemental runes give their owners a hard time. Even in Suikoden I, the people within the Dragon Knight Order flat out tell you that bearing the Dragon Rune is a curse for Joshua.

I'd say the runes are somewhat of a "curse" to their owners. While the Rune of Punishment is pretty much flat out cursed, and the Soul Eater is debatable. The other Runes are only cursed so far as to what the bearer considers to be a problem. I mean Suikoden III ends with Hugo, Chris and Geddoe all returning to their normal lives despite two of them now having immortality and the third has been doing a pretty good job with the immortality shtick before the game started, so I don't think the immense power and immortality is considered a problem. Sierra herself was living peacefully in a town she built with other vampires until Neclord stole the Blue Moon Rune and the entire Dragon Knight Order is based around following the bearer of the True Dragon Rune so I would argue the idea of the solitary life of being a True Rune Bearer is not really true. Only Ted, Tir, and the very long known list of Rune of Punishment bearers really follow the solitary/Doctor Who experience you suggest, and both Runes are the ones that are called cursed in the games.

I feel all this points to the idea that the True Runes are not simply "godhood in a can" er... rune, but that they are seriously forces that shouldn't be messed with and most people try to avoid. The games themselves show that bearing the rune is a heavy burden, not just because the runes are often associated with historical events but just having them garners problems of their own as the rune either has what appears to be a devious power or actually just messes with the users head to get its way. .
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Re: The soul eater, the rune of life and death.

Postby Noraibah » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:32 pm

I'm guessing that the Soul Eater rune is the direct opposite of the Sovereign rune. Just a theory or opinion.
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Re: The soul eater, the rune of life and death.

Postby Hirathien » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:07 am

Ok, and what do you base this theory or opinion on? Just a hunch?

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Re: The soul eater, the rune of life and death.

Postby Noraibah » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:24 pm

Yes, a hunch. There isn't enough information in Suikoden I even with all Stars of Destiny. Trust me, I've tried.
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