Hikusaak, Luc, Sasarai - the Circle Rune & Rune of Change

Detailed hypotheses for, and analysis of, the events transpiring during the Suikoden games
jbd86es
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Hikusaak, Luc, Sasarai - the Circle Rune & Rune of Change

Postby jbd86es » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:02 pm

I have some questions about Harmonia, Hikusaak, Luc and Sasarai. Hikusaak is the missing leader of Harmonia and Bearer of the Circle Rune. He set the policy to find and take any True Rune that Harmonia could. And Luc and Sasarai are clones of Hikusaak, right? But they are each only 30 years old. And their purposes were to be Bearers of the other True Runes since Hikusaak can only have one. Does that mean there are other clones, 24 more of them? And True Fire was stolen from Harmonia by the Flame Champion, so was a clone designed to bear it and that this clone was either robbed of the Rune or the Rune was taken before its completion. And has not Hikusaak been missing for decades, if not centuries? So how are 30-year-old-clones (like Luc & Sasarai) being created in his absence, especially if the Suikoden world is lacking in advanced technology? How did Luc end up Leknaat's service, if he was created in Harmonia? And my last question, what if the Circle Rune and Rune of Change are the same Rune, but with two names (like the Rune of Life and Death, is also known as the Soul Eater)? The Circle Rune creates order and stagnation. The Rune of Change forces the bearer and his/her people to move constantly. I think Hikusaak could have been a Sindar who moved his people constantly, but they eventually died while he survived with the Rune's immortality. When the Sindar faded away, he could have founded Harmonia, but was forced to leave it by the Rune and without him, Harmonia weakens. I also think a circle is representative of a cycle, which is change, but has stages of order.
Any thoughts or solutions or any of these points? I know little about some of these subjects, and have pieced lots of info. together by other discussions. Correct me as much as you can, but try to be accurate, so that I don't become more confused.

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Re: Hikusaak, Luc, Sasarai - the Circle Rune & Rune of Change

Postby Mio » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:00 am

1. just because Luc and Sasarai looks like in their 30s doesn't mean they are, remember they bear true runes, granting them immortality, most likely eternal youth is thrown in that package as well

2. to assume 24 more clones for every true rune is quite far fetched, i believe Hikusaak only made clones as vessels for true runes he already acquired

3. about the vessel for the true fire, unless the late Flame Champ some kind of genius, it'd be impossible for the FC to steal a true rune from a person, clone or not.
(i recall Luc calling the technology of extracting true runes as relatively new)

4. although Suikoden is set in old Asia or something, the existence of Sindar technology before time is a big influence. also sceintific technology is not the only media they have, its kinda possible to use DNA modification or clone producing using the proper runes

5. in my doused memory, i recall that Luc, according to investigations, stole something from Harmonia and was on the run. Leknaat, being the watcher of true runes prolly stepped in to help the lost true rune bearer and accepted him as an apprentice

6. your theory is quite plausible, i can only tell as much since im no expert in runes, wait for KFCrispy or Vextor

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Re: Hikusaak, Luc, Sasarai - the Circle Rune & Rune of Change

Postby Paler than Moon » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:59 pm

Oh well, since you'll get only speculation and theories, you will get more confused ^^

I believe that Hikusaak's "cloning" method is different from our real world's understanding of cloning. He uses rune(s) to create a clone, DNA could be involved (maybe that's why Luc and Sasarai look like ach other).

I recall that Luc's age is around 30 and it's an official information. If that's true then Hikusaak hould have been exist in Harmonia at least until 30 years before Suikoden 3 takes place. At this point we don't know how many True Runes and clones Hikusaak owns, we only know 2 but since Sasarai himself didn't know he was a clone until Luc told him, there could be more clones in Harmonia.

There IS a Rune of Change as opposed to Circle Rune. Rune of Change is/was in the hand of the leader of Syndar. Circle Rune symbolizes order and stagnation. There's continuity that doesn't change in a circle, not change (I think).

There is a theory that the Circle Rune and Rune of Change are a "pair" like Back-Gate Rune and Front-Gate Rune.

Also, they could be the same rune after all? Who knows? Anything can happen.

My guess is that Hikusaak is hiding somewhere during Suikoden III timeline. Only a few people from the Harmonian government knows his whereabout. Talk about conspiracy :D

(sorry If I'm not making any sense with my bad English)
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Re: Hikusaak, Luc, Sasarai - the Circle Rune & Rune of Change

Postby highwind44029 » Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:47 am

Mio wrote:1. just because Luc and Sasarai looks like in their 30s doesn't mean they are, remember they bear true runes, granting them immortality, most likely eternal youth is thrown in that package as well

They didn't look like they were in their 30's. They looked like teenagers. Sasarai was older than Dios, and you can see the comparison there. =\

It's official info that they were 31 during the Second Fire Bringer War. Richmond's investigation of Luc during Suikoden II revealed that he was 16 back then, and we all know that Suikoden III takes place 15 years after Suikoden II.

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Re: Hikusaak, Luc, Sasarai - the Circle Rune & Rune of Change

Postby Mio » Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:26 am

highwind44029 wrote:
Mio wrote:1. just because Luc and Sasarai looks like in their 30s doesn't mean they are, remember they bear true runes, granting them immortality, most likely eternal youth is thrown in that package as well

They didn't look like they were in their 30's. They looked like teenagers. Sasarai was older than Dios, and you can see the comparison there. =\

It's official info that they were 31 during the Second Fire Bringer War. Richmond's investigation of Luc during Suikoden II revealed that he was 16 back then, and we all know that Suikoden III takes place 15 years after Suikoden II.

i couldn't exactly place my finger on their age as i was judging their models and avatars

in Suikoden, pictures CAN lie

so perhaps i was wrong to assume that Sasarai and Luc looked 30s in SIII

in any case, it's a minor deviation from the larger picture

my point stands

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Re: Hikusaak, Luc, Sasarai - the Circle Rune & Rune of Change

Postby highwind44029 » Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:51 am

If Sasarai looked 30 judging from his 3D sprite, then Hugo and Thomas must have looked 30 too then. =\

This doesn't look like 30 to me, either. Mid-20's at most...

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Re: Hikusaak, Luc, Sasarai - the Circle Rune & Rune of Change

Postby Runemaster » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:03 am

If I'd base it from his face he's more of like an 18 year old guy but if you see his height, he looks more mature.. early 20's maybe???
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Re: Hikusaak, Luc, Sasarai - the Circle Rune & Rune of Change

Postby highwind44029 » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:34 am

Sasarai is approximately 5'5" during Suikoden III. Big surprise: Luc is the same height as he is.

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Re: Hikusaak, Luc, Sasarai - the Circle Rune & Rune of Change

Postby mumbay » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:46 am

weren't they made as clones of hikusaak and also the True Runes i don't believe are gone allow us to be able to tell their exact age from appearence since they do stop the growth of people i mean look at Geddoe he was over 100 years old and didn't look over 40 to me

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Re: Hikusaak, Luc, Sasarai - the Circle Rune & Rune of Change

Postby highwind44029 » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:34 pm

I'm actually interested too if the True Fire, True Lightning, and True Water Runes were originally in Harmonia and were to be used to create clones like Luc and Sasarai. We know that the Flame Champion took the True Fire Rune, but what about the other two? Clearly, it's not a mere coincidence that the bearers of the True Lightning (Geddoe) and True Water (Wyatt) were friends with the Flame Champion, right?

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Re: Hikusaak, Luc, Sasarai - the Circle Rune & Rune of Change

Postby jbd86es » Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:17 pm

That's a good point about the True Water and True Lightning Runes possibly coming from Harmonia. If they did originate there, I wonder why Harmonia collected all of the elemental True Runes.
Also, everyone knows there are 27 True Runes, but do the people of Suikoden know the names of all the Runes, is it common knowledge? Should the leaders of Harmonia, at least know?
Life & Death (Soul-Eater), Beginning (Bright Shield/Black Sword), Change, Circle, Dragon, Blue Moon, Gate (Front/Back), Eightfold, True Fire, True Water, True Lightning, True Earth, True Wind, Sun, Night, Punishment = 16 known True Runes (if I'm right).
Suikoden VI is the last entry in the series? Are they going to reveal the last 11 True Runes in one title? If they do, it must involve Harmonia since they are stocking up on True Runes; what other sensible way is there to reveal them all?
Also, Sasarai was unaware of Luc's identity (since he wore a mask) and did not know of their identical appearances. So if they are clones of Hikusaak, Sasarai must not know what Hikusaak looks like; I thought he would be in the loop of their leader's 'missing status'. Also, there must be no other clones working in a public capacity (as Bishops, for instance) or Sasarai would see people identical to him. And if Hikusaak is missing and powerful Bishops like Sasarai are unaware of clones, then who is making clones and raising them, who is keeping the True Runes under guard and then implanting them in clones. Unless it is Hikusaak, the keeper of the True Runes is either a deeply loyal fanatic of Hikusaak and Harmonia, or has a True Rune herself/himself; otherwise, they would be deeply tempted to take one of these True Runes for themselves (imagine being the person that guards Harmonia's True Runes, that are in a secret location unknown to most, and not making one of them your own). I would not be surprised if there was another clone that disposed of Hikusaak, took the Circle Rune or a more fitting Rune, and manages the cloning process herself/himself. It could be the number 2 position in Harmonia, unavailable to even many of the Bishops or could take measures to guard his identity, like Luc. (The Harmonians seem willing to entrust great political power to masked figures).

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Re: Hikusaak, Luc, Sasarai - the Circle Rune & Rune of Change

Postby Runemaster » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:10 am

highwind44029 wrote:Sasarai is approximately 5'5" during Suikoden III. Big surprise: Luc is the same height as he is.


5'5 is kinda short if you look at that pic. It isn't really surprising if they possess a similar height since it is known that theyre clones.
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Re: Hikusaak, Luc, Sasarai - the Circle Rune & Rune of Change

Postby Mio » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:58 pm

enough with the height already

deliberating on Luc's and Sasarai's height bears little significance imo


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