the fog ship captain

Detailed hypotheses for, and analysis of, the events transpiring during the Suikoden games
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Mio
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Re: the fog ship captain

Postby Mio » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:44 am

yes they were or are, they were once the predominant civilization in the land

but then something happened and they were forced to leave the current land they are in,

leaving the technology and artifacts in ruins behind

i can't remember where i got all that so it might not be true

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Re: the fog ship captain

Postby Lovecraft_elder » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:58 am

I've always imagined that the "Fog Ship" in S4 is the Pale Palace in S2, you know, the Blue Gate Rune spell. There's no evidence of this, except that they both are ships. I'd like to think that the Eternal City is located in the World of Emptiness, and that Mr. Fog is a creature created by the Sindar. Oh, and I really like to believe that sindarians are Yohn-ish creatures, which too come from the Empty World... however... this is nothing but a young man's dreams and wishes.

Let's look at the evidence. I've just played through the scene, and I'm going to quote some stuff...

!!!!!!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

The first thing the Cap'n says is:
"I am one who wanders a million worlds, and one who watches this world's fate from afar. Wilt thou come with me?" - This suggest that Mr. F travels all the dimensions and worlds in the Suikoden universe, but that he doesn't really have anything to do with the world we know. He's just a voyer. : P

Later on, he continues:
"Part with me from this forsaken world. Come with me upon this ship, where time governs us not. Define not thine own fate. I have come for thee. Do not let my journey be for naught. This world too shall end someday. Come... be eternal." - Here, he suggests that he indeed travels the world via the ship, that he surpasses time and that he must have travelled for some time. Oh, and he tries to tempt or Lazlo. "Come with me, I have cookies."

Know, Lazlo musters up, steps forth, and says either of these two: "I don't want to stay here for all my life!" or "If I stay here, my life will never end?" - We are good people, we wont stay on the ship. I mean, it's filled with monsters, and the only light comes from Ted's torch and Mr. F's big, glowing, evil eyes.

Ted steps forward and says something about seizing his fate ONE MORE TIME. This could suggest that Ted hasn't always been within the Fog Ship (we know that), but that he possibly could have been involved in something bigger once before. He continues saying: "So, will you return that Rune to me? That cursed Rune? The Soul Eater!" - Uh! Ted has handed over his Rune once to the evil creature, and now he wants it back.

Mr. F is angry. Like hell he will give the Rune back. He also says that he took Ted in.

Battle! Fire and lightning hails from the sky while swords slash against the unholy enemy... well, I beat it. Btw, in this battle, the Fog Ship Guide actually uses spells from the Souleater Rune.

After the battle, Foggy transfers the Rune. Teddy goes: "Souleater... I will not... run away... anymore." - Uhhh! Ted has tried to escape his fate as the host of the Souleater?

Then, Leknaat appears. She always have to steal the light, huh? Foggy's like: "You... the Executor of Balance." - He most definately knows big L.

Are you ready, coz' here it comes. Leknaat says: "Oh Guide, return quietly now... to the city of Eternity... where your brethren live... Do not take those who do not wish it." - There is no doubt that this suggests that whoever lives in this Eternal City (which supposedly is the sindarians haven) is his brothers live. I'd say he deffinately is a sindar then (to my suprise too).

Foggy goes on talking bout revenge. Getting revenge against "this world." and "chaos." Until then, I must gather strength. This makes him sound like a super duper bad guy. Maybe he returns later as an ultimate villain. What... or who is this Chaos thing anyway? Yuber would be my first guess.

Leknaat goes: "I am sorry, but that was not the role that was given to you." - Hmm... this sounds very deep. Could the sindarians be plotting to end Suiko? I wonder. And who exactly gives these roles?

Then, the Souleater Rune shines, and Foggy disintegrates. Leknaat then says that the Souleater never must disappear from this world. I guess not, since it governs over life and death and all that. She then goes: "Reaccepting the Rune from which he has distanced himself for so long has shown me just how determined a human can be." - I dunno what to think of this. Sounds like this is where Leknaat actually decides to help the humans a little, although she has helped out Lazlo already. She continues: "As for the end of the world? You need not worry. No one should be concerned of such a thing right now." - I guess big L tells us that the Ashen Future actually will come one day. Too sad. She then says some moralboosting words (I guess she needed to, since she has just told our hero that the world is gonna end).

The ships start to rumble, and Lino starts to feel that there's something wrong with the big misty, evil ship that appeared out of nowhere. He's a little slow. Then, Ted says: "The captain has no physical form. What you just saw was created out of magic... hmm?" - The captain has no physical form... that means that sindars have no physical form, or what? He continues saying the ship might also be some kind of illusion. There goes my theory about the Pale Palace. Oh, bummer.

In the end, the ship vanish into thin air.



SPOILERS END.


To sum up the points that are important for this threat. Leknaat, who is indeed familiar with Foggy, says that he should go back to the City of Eternity where he may be together with his brethren, meaning, that if the City of Eternity truly is the city of sindarians, he is one of them.
Furthermor, Ted tells that the captain has no real form, meaning that sindarians definately not look like black, evil, one-armed shrimps.

That's all. Thanks for reading. Hope you all find it helpful.
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Re: the fog ship captain

Postby Chaco » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:12 pm

says that he should go back to the City of Eternity


I just replayed Suikoden 4 last weekend and he does indeed mention the Eternal City which is the final resting place of the Sindar (I THINK I read that in the Old Book in Suikoden 2) and so this proves that The Fog Ship Captain must be sindarian. Also I think the Fog Ship Captain wanted Ted and his rune to remain in the ship so they cannot go out into the world and cause bad stuff to happen due to the runes curse and power (Such as the gate rune wars).
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Mio
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Re: the fog ship captain

Postby Mio » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:26 am

Chris_Lightfellow wrote:
Raww Le Klueze wrote:
Chris_Lightfellow wrote:Not everyone has played S2, Raww.

Which has what to do with the subject at hand exactly?

Well, they don't mention the Eternal City in 1 or 3, that I can recall, so the only logical assumption would be that it was mentioned in 2, which would make the tie to the Sindar apparent.

.. guess this wasn't true after all

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Re: the fog ship captain

Postby Holywhippet » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:38 pm

Chaco wrote:
says that he should go back to the City of Eternity


I just replayed Suikoden 4 last weekend and he does indeed mention the Eternal City which is the final resting place of the Sindar (I THINK I read that in the Old Book in Suikoden 2) and so this proves that The Fog Ship Captain must be sindarian. Also I think the Fog Ship Captain wanted Ted and his rune to remain in the ship so they cannot go out into the world and cause bad stuff to happen due to the runes curse and power (Such as the gate rune wars).


Not neccessarily. It's implied that the Sindar found the Eternal City, but they may not have founded the Eternal City. Other beings might live there and they have allowed the Sindar to stay.

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Re: the fog ship captain

Postby LunasMeow » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:30 pm

Holywhippet wrote:Not neccessarily. It's implied that the Sindar found the Eternal City, but they may not have founded the Eternal City. Other beings might live there and they have allowed the Sindar to stay.


Thank you! I was about to state this myself. The key point is that the Sindar FOUND their Eternal City after their eternal wander. Which probably means they literally found the place. And if they found it then it stands to reason that someone else built it. Or that it was there when everything was created, hence the name Eternal City. Either way, it doesn't mean that ONLY the Sindar can live there. Anybody ever read Raymond E. Feist? His eternal city was in existence before time began. It had been inhabited by many. All came and went and the city remained. No one knows where it came from. This Eternal City kinda sounds the same.

And people, PLEASE check your spelling. Little typos ok, but some of you seriously need to work on your words...

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Re: the fog ship captain

Postby Runemaster » Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:32 am

Lovecraft_elder wrote:I've always imagined that the "Fog Ship" in S4 is the Pale Palace in S2, you know, the Blue Gate Rune spell. There's no evidence of this, except that they both are ships.

I don't completely remember Foggy's physycal form but now that you've mentioned it...

Does S2's Empty World beast look like the Fog Ship Cap'n?
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Re: the fog ship captain

Postby Lovecraft_elder » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:22 pm

Not in any way. The cap'n looks like a large, evil shrimp of darkness. The Empty World monster looks like... it will rip your head off with its scaly claws.
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Re: the fog ship captain

Postby JanusThePaladin » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:11 pm

The cap'n always seemed to me to be along the same lines as a God from Micheal Moorecock's Eternal Champion series. He plays by different rules, but is still forced to submit to the rules of the Suikoden World. In as much, he was unable to bring his true form with him, but was able to move his conciousness and create a vassal. When the vassal was destroyed, his conciousness was banished, and he was forced out of the Suikoden world.

but whether or not his IS sindarian, i dont know, but it seems pretty obvious that he has to have some sort of connection to them.

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Re: the fog ship captain

Postby Runemaster » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:30 am

Lovecraft_elder wrote:Not in any way. The cap'n looks like a large, evil shrimp of darkness. The Empty World monster looks like... it will rip your head off with its scaly claws.

Oh yeah..Just remembered the form of our beloved cap'n! And he doesn't look like Mr.Empty!


Cap'n's form is sooooooo weird......
I will bring Lordlake's fate... to the entire Suikoden World! weeeeeeh!

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Re: the fog ship captain

Postby kte03 » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:18 pm

Can someone please lemme know when the "Eternal Capital" is mentioned in Suikoden? It ish hard :'(

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Re: the fog ship captain

Postby JanusThePaladin » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:02 pm

To my knowledge it is not. The eternal capital is accept suikoden lore as its mention in one (or more) of the books we all accept as cannon.

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Re: the fog ship captain

Postby kte03 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:50 am

But then why do the posters in this thread mention an Eternal City in Suikoden II associated with the Fog Ship Captain? Is it basing it off to how it is said that "the Sindar's search ends as they have found their eternal city"

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Re: the fog ship captain

Postby JanusThePaladin » Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:41 am

Rather than repeat myself, i will just direct you to this quotation of me!

JanusThePaladin wrote:What is with you man? where does all the hostility come from?

Anyway, in responce to your quote, it is here on suikosource, but it is not mentioned in any of the games. Thus someone who played the games and doesnt know the LOAD of back story behind them would not necessarily be knowledgeable of a single quotation on the entire site.

However, i did know this quotation, and when playing S4, it definitely did not pop into my mind "eternal city? Must be the SINDAR!" As a matter of fact, i assumed the Eternal city was more of a reference to another plane of existence, much like Tanelorn in the Eternal Champion Chronicles. Hell, even Tanelorn has been refered to as the Eternal City.

If the Fog Ship Cap'n has some connection to the Sindar, i see him more likely being a creation of theirs, possibly looking for true runes to rebel against them. I cant imagine that the Cap'n is infact a sindar, as the Sindar definitely had real forms and bodies in the Suikoverse, and Ted mentions that the Fog Ship, and the Cap'n are actually magical illusions to represent something that should not exist on their plane.

I await your angry rebuttal.


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Re: the fog ship captain

Postby kte03 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:06 am

Heh thanks ^_^ I was wondering why the word "Eternal City" never popped in my mind as the Sindar. I thought I missed something during Alex' treasure hunt -_-" But yeah, I did read that earlier when I was reading the 27 True Runes :]


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