The Tenkai Heroes' Mothers all dead

[Vextor]

A number of the Dragon Quest games have moms that aren't dead, such as Dragon Quest 3 and Dragon Quest 7.

[EternalOnslaught]

It wouldn't hurt if a future Tenkai Star isn't parent less throughout the entire game, or if said Tenkai Star is an actual parent him/herself instead of being a pubescent boy.

[snakebite105]

I agree as much as I don't mind the generic 16-21 year old generic boy hero who usually has famous roots such as

General's son (Tir, Yuri, Ash, Ramza, Chris, Celes)
Prince (Freyjador, Hugo)
Hero's son (Tidus, Riou, Squall, Bartz, Terra)

I know original ideas are hard to come up with but alot of Jrpg heroes (Especially from FF games) just seem to be generic carbon copies. The problem is if they don't use someone within the age group of the target audience its 1)Harder to kill off loved ones to make us more emotionally attached and 2)Is to different form the target audience to relate to.

[Ancient Cheesecake]

Of course if they just targetted a more mature audience that wouldn't be such a problem.

[snakebite105]

ya but for video games a more mature audience goes from 16-18 year old to 18-25 year old. I'm not saying that older people don't play im just saying this is the average target for a mature audience.

In most stories your only makeing the shift from Tidus from FF to Caim from Drakengard. essencially their the same only differing in now the latter has a thrist for revenge with an unquenchenable bloodthrist.

and extreem example would be recatogorising Luca Blight as an anti-hero.

[Blutiger Engel]

ya but for video games a more mature audience goes from 16-18 year old to 18-25 year old. I'm not saying that older people don't play im just saying this is the average target for a mature audience.

Well, the latter audience (generally) has more money, so I don't think it would hurt developers to go in that direction.

[JanusThePaladin]

I agree as much as I don't mind the generic 16-21 year old generic boy hero who usually has famous roots such as

General's son (Tir, Yuri, Ash, Ramza, Chris, Celes)
Prince (Freyjador, Hugo)
Hero's son (Tidus, Riou, Squall, Bartz, Terra)

I know original ideas are hard to come up with but alot of Jrpg heroes (Especially from FF games) just seem to be generic carbon copies. The problem is if they don't use someone within the age group of the target audience its 1)Harder to kill off loved ones to make us more emotionally attached and 2)Is to different form the target audience to relate to.

Celes was not the child of a general, she was an orphan, and a General in here own right. Squall was an orphan, i think they tried to elude to him being whats his names son, but they definitely didnt say he was, Terra was not a hero's son, she was a half monster. And i don't remember barts being a hero's son either, but i could be wrong on this, i havent played ff5 in awhile, but the other 3 had illustrious backgrounds, 2 of them being princesses and all.

[Ancient Cheesecake]

ya but for video games a more mature audience goes from 16-18 year old to 18-25 year old. I'm not saying that older people don't play im just saying this is the average target for a mature audience.

In most stories your only makeing the shift from Tidus from FF to Caim from Drakengard. essencially their the same only differing in now the latter has a thrist for revenge with an unquenchenable bloodthrist.

and extreem example would be recatogorising Luca Blight as an anti-hero.

Um, Luca Blight, Anti-Hero? Admittedly I never got to play S2 much so I don't know very much about Luca Blight but from his bio on this site he sounds like a straight up villain to me. Did he actually do a bunch of heroic things that aren't in his bio?

[snakebite105]

Blutigengel

while the latter group has more money they are more often then not going to buy less video games then the younger audience.

Ancient Cheesecake

I wasen't saying Luca was an anti-hero but that a "Mature game" would usually use a character like him. Go look at cutscenes from Drakengard and you'll see the main hero named Caim. He acts alot like Luca especially at the beginning of the game he's only out for blood for most of the game.

I agree as much as I don't mind the generic 16-21 year old generic boy hero who usually has famous roots such as

General's son (Tir, Yuri, Ash, Ramza, Chris, Celes)
Prince (Freyjador, Hugo)
Hero's son (Tidus, Riou, Squall, Bartz, Terra)

I know original ideas are hard to come up with but alot of Jrpg heroes (Especially from FF games) just seem to be generic carbon copies. The problem is if they don't use someone within the age group of the target audience its 1)Harder to kill off loved ones to make us more emotionally attached and 2)Is to different form the target audience to relate to.

Celes was not the child of a general, she was an orphan, and a General in here own right. Squall was an orphan, i think they tried to elude to him being whats his names son, but they definitely didnt say he was, Terra was not a hero's son, she was a half monster. And i don't remember barts being a hero's son either, but i could be wrong on this, i havent played ff5 in awhile, but the other 3 had illustrious backgrounds, 2 of them being princesses and all.

You could also argue that Hugo wasen't a prince or Yuri's father was not actually a general. Squall was actually Laguna's son who was a hero.

Celes was adopted by Cid and while he was not himself a general this is of course a generalisation like Yuri's father form shadow hearts wasen't actually a general but part of the military. Yes Cid wasen't part of the combat sector but he was still in the military.

Terra's father sacrificed himself to attempt to save his wife Madonna and Terra while the humans tried to invade their lands. While it may have failed the attempt to me makes me think of him of being heroic even if its fleeting.

Bartz' father was one of the original heros of light before Bartz and his friends took over as the new heroes of light.

[JanusThePaladin]

I do not remember the part about Bartz. However, Celes is most certainly not a general's daughter or anything even close to is. She was raised by Cid, a doctor, who worked for the government, and was later forced to work for the military. But that is nothing like the relation between Tir and Teo, who was an actual enlisted fighter in the military and an established war hero.

Terra's father's self sacrificial heroism is not in anyway akin to Genkaku's heroism, as Genkaku was a war hero, and his name lent credence to Riou's reputation. Terra's father did nothing like that, and you therefore cannot lump her into a group of people who's fathers are like Genkaku.

Whether or not Squall turned out to be Laguna's son is not important. Laguna did not raise Squall, he was raised an orphan, and of no rank. Laguna's possible heroism could not lend credence to his name, and he was not connected to his father in anyway until events in his life forced him into a country that's location was almost entirely unknown. So Squall would be the same as Terra, in that his parentage doesnt play a part in who he is as the hero of the story. You might as well add Lazlo to your list, since Lino En Kuldes is really his father but has never had any effect whatsoever on his life up until he had reached maturity.

I'm not disagreeing with your statements, games are far to overly cliche'd these days. However, you have used bad examples.

[snakebite105]

Being a heroic can be in 1 instance of a lifetime Terra's father falls into that catagory even if he didn't make a living out of it.

As for Celes. Its all the same. Cid may not have been a general but he was part of the military its close enough for me to lump it into 1 catagory. He was certinly in the top 5 most important people in a militeristic regime. like i said you could also argue that Hugo wasen't a prince. Its just easier to lump them into the basic 3 catagories of generic hero. I could have said Parent with high military status but General was easier.

[Ancient Cheesecake]

Ancient Cheesecake

I wasen't saying Luca was an anti-hero but that a "Mature game" would usually use a character like him. Go look at cutscenes from Drakengard and you'll see the main hero named Caim. He acts alot like Luca especially at the beginning of the game he's only out for blood for most of the game.

You specifically said "anti-hero". I'm really not sure what you're saying, here or in your previous post. Are you trying to say that a "Mature game" would use Luca as a protagonist? I suppose it might, then again they might also use Shion Uzuki as a protagonist

I just watched all the cutscenes for Drakengard I could find on Youtube and didn't see anything at all that indicated that Caim was "only out of blood".

[snakebite105]

Not even the scene where he kills children because their working for the empire? I would have figured the killing children thing would have sealed the deal.


what i said was

an extreem example would be recategorizing Luca Blight as an anti-hero

this does not mean Luca is an anti-hero if you look at the overall statement. What I'm saying is an an EXTREEM example the person who will be the main character in a mature game will be like Luca Blight. Its like if you RECATEGORIZED as an anti-hero.

as for Caim look at these vids. Keep in mind that through the storyline Caim becomes mute but gains a type of telepathic comunication with anyone who has made a pact with a beast. Unfortunity alot of dialog is during the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56hrLZs5 ... L&index=49

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPb4Eqqn ... xt_from=PL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RihNOdkt ... xt_from=PL

there isent much for cutscenes of caim being bad but the mission where you go kill child soliders is Leonard's regret verse 3 if you can find it its more then i could. When I say child soliders im taliking 10-12 year olds who are begging for their lives while you kill them with your pedophile teammate. Luca has nothing on Caim.

Also look at other characters other then Caim.

The main cast other then Caim are, A pedophile, a Child murderer, and a Child who has lost his entire family and his ability to age makeing it so he has no future. and these are the good guys

[Ancient Cheesecake]

Using 10 year olds as soldiers is just a totally impractical idea. They are too weak to wield weapons, and wouldn't know how. And of course there's the aforementioned begging for their lives. It's be totally pointless. Still, if Caim is killing them anyway that certainly makes him a bastard.

How is being the main character the same as being an Anti-Hero though?

[snakebite105]

Main characters in mature games usually are anti-heroes. almost all the time. Most of the time they'll just do as they please.