5 or 6 Great Imperial Generals?

Hypotheses for, and analyses of, the various Suikoden characters.
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BrucePrintscreen
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Re: 5 or 6 Great Imperial Generals?

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:45 pm

It seems logical that Valeria is stationed in Pannu Yakuta. In Suikoden 1, she says she is from the Great Forest. She is also a Captain in Pannu Yakuta. She joined you after fighting for peace in the region. So Pannu Yakuta is a logical choice for Valeria.

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Re: 5 or 6 Great Imperial Generals?

Postby Wolkendrache » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:18 pm

Awesome, thanks!
Let me add some more questions…

- Arus or Arlus (katakana is アールス)? Gensopedia says “The name of the region is often romanised online as Arlus, where you'd need to fuzz the reading of the katakana a bit to get that result.”
- Where is the small border village located? According to Suikox it’s in the south of the great forest. In the year 80 the forest of illusion was created to keep the great forest protected from the outside world; this was long before the scarlet moon empire was established. How could the reach and govern this part?
- As for Rokkaku, it seems to be in an area either contested or ignored by the SME and Jowston. S2 suggests it’s rather part of Jowston (north of the border to Toran where we met Varkas). The problem is that the above makes Teo’s razing of Rokkaku even more peculiar. It means he even left the empire, crossing the border, to destroy a small village for reasons unknown (wasn’t he supposed to protect the border and fight Jowston forces?). As for the location, it is east of the Dunan river, so it must be slightly north of Dana then, right?

Just some thoughts and speculation…
So each general has its region, whether they govern themselves or leave it to magistrates. Milich has Kunan, Kasim has Senan, Sonya has the lake and waterways (and maybe Dana), Teo was sent to the northern border, Kwanda is sent to the great forest area; Neclord takes over Lorimar. Gouran and Arus are still in question. I’m thinking now that Arus and Kwanda makes more sense, because Kwanda distinguished himself in the succession wars by protecting the emperor, hence his nickname Iron Wall. He should be stationed in Gregminster, but ironically he is one of only two (Kasim) who has no house there visible in the games. Gouran and Teo also makes sense, that’s where he battles his son. Feeling responsible for him, he would have gone there anyway I guess, but from a military-strategic point of view, at that location, an involvement of the navy (Sonya) would have made more sense imo.
BrucePrintscreen wrote:It seems logical that Valeria is stationed in Pannu Yakuta. In Suikoden 1, she says she is from the Great Forest. She is also a Captain in Pannu Yakuta. She joined you after fighting for peace in the region. So Pannu Yakuta is a logical choice for Valeria.

Yes, and besides it makes sense to keep Kwanda away from the area where he caused great harm. To sum up and supplement the assumption mentioned by Vextor: Kasim is sent back to the desert region Senan. Sonya is sent back to Shasarazade, because she’s the only general capable of leading the navy. Camille and Kai are formally given the Kunan and Dana region, but they are kept as instructors in Arus or ordered to rotate through the regions. Kwanda as commander-in chief is probably used as both Gregminster guard force and vanguard force like Teo was before. As mentioned above, Valeria is in charge of the great forest area and maybe Gouran, because the former alone aren’t considered as (main) region.
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Vextor
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Re: 5 or 6 Great Imperial Generals?

Postby Vextor » Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:48 am

The ninjas were thought of as a powerful force that wasn't under the influence of the Empire, and they were located close to the border. Thus they were thought of as being a threat to the Empire, especially if they collaborated with the Liberation Army-- which is probably why they were attacked.

Also, although during the rule of the Scarlet Moon Empire each great general was assumed to have also governed each region, this system of military rule was abolished after they incorporated a different political system in the Toran Republic. The Executive branch led by the President also includes the military, headed by Kwanda, but also includes the border patrol lead by Varkas, the interior patrol led by Kessler, and the Capital Defense Force led by Alen and Grenseal which all exist independently from the military. The military no longer has a role in governing each region, so thus the six great general has a purely military role in the Toran Republic.

The government also includes the legislative branch led by Warren, and the judicial branch led by Hugo (the librarian).
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Re: 5 or 6 Great Imperial Generals?

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:29 pm

What Vextor says make sense in the idea of changing the nature of the regime from military controlled to democratic. In a democracy, you would not have big generals commanding big troops in each part of your country. It would mean that the primary mean of the military is to control your people, not to defend them against external threats. In contemporary US, you have a huge military but it is aimed at the world, not at the US territory, for example. A democratic Toran would have forces dedicated to the Jowston border and other borders but not against the Toran people itself. I think the fact that Scarlet Moon had generals to govern its provinces was a sign of its dictatorial nature.

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Re: 5 or 6 Great Imperial Generals?

Postby Wolkendrache » Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:31 am

Vextor, I think Rokkaku was razed rather to avoid cooperation with Jowston (preventive strike). The empire spend 2 of 5 generals to fight in the north (against Jowston), and none of the remaining 3 generals were appointed to regions where the Liberation Army was active. The empire didn’t care much about the Liberation Army at that time, because its influence was very limited.

Bruce, I agree there are reforms after a civil war of course, but take a look at the empire before the Windy intermezzo: there was a leader and six generals who were all good folks, the people were satisfied, the only threat comes from the north, there’s no threat from among the people. The country faces the same circumstances after the founding of the republic. There were certainly some formal changes, but I don’t think the people felt major changes in practice concerning military structure. Divide it in 3 stages: Barbarossa (before Claudia’s death), Windy, and finally Lepant. My point is that the military practice/reality didn’t change from A to A to B, but rather from A to B to A, so in Toran, a change of the leaders’ alignment caused greater change than a change in form of government. The only difference between the Barbarossa empire and the Lepant republic seems to be the election of the leader. Who elected Lepant? Where there alternative candidates listed? How long is a legislative period? Depending on the answers the real change could shrink even more.

So if there is no civil resentment (because of democracy), the military can concentrate on the borders. I agree. For example democratic Brazil concentrates its military on the borders of their slums and their soccer stadiums. Both the empire and the republic of Toran used its military to protect their own border. The US spend huge sums to “protect” borders of countries the US citizens have never heard of, and if you call this democratic, it basically means it is in accordance with the will of the people. I’m not American, but I don’t think this is true. Your comparison had a reasonable part as well as an implicit ridiculous one.
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Re: 5 or 6 Great Imperial Generals?

Postby Vextor » Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:52 am

Actually, Kasumi does say in-game that Rokakku has been fighting against the Imperial Army, and as a result of that they were crushed by Teo McDohl.
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