WINDY!!!

[Oppenheimer]

Leknaat took the events in Suikoden I personally because they involved Windy and her half of the gate rune (hence being called the Gate Rune Wars) that's why she interfered. But, normally she's just an observer to make sure the runes retain their balance of power I guess.

[Chaco]

Leknaat took the events in Suikoden I personally because they involved Windy and her half of the gate rune (hence being called the Gate Rune Wars) that's why she interfered. But, normally she's just an observer to make sure the runes retain their balance of power I guess.

Yeah I knew all that, but the thing that interests me about her is that if she does have power like that why not use it, and why does she take both sides of the war with Riou/Jowy...I think her role is a bit bigger then just watching how things play out, I feel she is helping things play out, the way she wants them to.

[Vextor]

Having been born from a clan that was slaughtered by Harmonia, Leknaat, like Windy, obviously would see Harmonia as a "concern" if not as an outright enemy.

As someone who is also interested in maintaining balance in the world, she'd obviously be interested in avoiding the impending "World of Order (Dharma)" that Luc let you glimpse in Suikoden 3. For thaty reason, Leknaat should have a personal interest in assisting Chaos as much as she can. Windy wished to gain the Souleater as a method for vengeance against Harmonia, but Leknaat is a lot more passive in her methods-- she merely helps tenkai stars harness their true runes for the cause of balance (without telling them).

In Suikoden 1 she is personally involved to an extent because Windy has been hunting her for her Gate Rune half, which is why Leknaat has banished herself within the Magician Isle's magical barriers. The Gate Rune Wars was in a way Leknaat's battle to avoid being killed by Windy. Also, supporting a rebellion would probably tip the balance towards chaos (just an assumption).

In Suikoden 2, Leknaat is less involved, but still plays a large part by favoring the bearer of the Bright Shield Rune over the Black Sword. The Black Sword is held by Jowy who becomes King of Highland, a Harmonian vassal state. As Jowy and Leon Silverberg say, Highland ruling the whole of Dunan would likely bring more stability (order). As one who wishes to tip the scales towards Chaos, one can assume Leknaat would be inclined to help Riou.

In Suikoden 3, she takes no active role. She just lets Luc go on his way without contacting any of the heroes. Maybe this is because Luc's cause would have ended up generating more Chaos. Helping the heroes would have promoted the side of Order, as the battles ended up ensuring the current status quo of True Runes.

She likely takes a less dirfect role because she doesn't want to draw undue attention to her, such as from Harmonia.

[Mio]

Yeah I knew all that, but the thing that interests me about her is that if she does have power like that why not use it, and why does she take both sides of the war with Riou/Jowy...I think her role is a bit bigger then just watching how things play out, I feel she is helping things play out, the way she wants them to.

well so far things worked out great in the SII-SV without her meddling in with the war

so who knows, maybe if needed, she'll lend a hand

(a bigger hand than she usually extends to the hero)

[JanusThePaladin]

From how leknaat acts and the little we know about her character, i've always considered her to be in favor of balance. Neither Order nor Chaos, just balance between the 2. I've talked about it before, but each game can be broken down into a battle between these 2 opposites. In s3 specifically, it is a battle against an extreme form of chaos that Luc desires to create, rather than the extreme form of Order that he sees his rune desiring.

[Mio]

balance my foot, she aids the good to vanquish evil

and in the end Good triumphs over evil

Good outweighs Evil

no balance there

[JanusThePaladin]

I dont see where you're getting good or evil. If the suikoden story has taught us anything, their are 2 sides to every story. Luca blight may have been evil, but Jowy Artriedes certainly was not. But both of them were the villains in S2. S2 is an example of Chaos conquering over order, as Jowy sought to create a powerful military empire that would rule their lands and keep harm from the children. Riou sought to bring free will and the ability to change ones life and actions, and control ones fate, I.e. Chaos.

In s3 Luc is definitely the villain, who seeks to bring about a world of chaos over the opposite that he sees as that worlds future. From what we know of Luc, and even from experiencing his side of Suikoden 3, you're telling me that he was evil?

Or how about the Godwins in S5? They sought to bring the world under control via the Sun Rune, and to build a better Falenan Empire. To make all things good and right in their view. They may not have used methods we like, but that does not make them evil.

Go be oblivious somewhere else.

[Tsharr]

Janus has a solid point in that the game series is less about the morality of good and evil and more about the difference between Order and Chaos. Mind you, the "bad" guys do some evil things, but they aren't doing evil because they want to just take over the world or something like that. They usually have an end goal that can be defined as "good," even if their means of reaching said goal are "evil."

[Vextor]

Yes, good / evil is separate from chaos / order, although people tend to associate good with order and chaos with evil. The Nazis are a good example of those with an extreme form of order while being quite evil. Examples of "good" chaotic entities would be someone like Robin Hood, who fought against established order for the good of the common person, etc.

Because Leknaat aims to establish balance, she would tend to be biased towards Chaos because the world is heading towards absolute Order.

[Mio]

oh sorry for being naivete there

i should've used order and chaos instead of good and evil

well that's enough cartoons for me

[Antimatzist]

Or how about the Godwins in S5? They sought to bring the world under control via the Sun Rune, and to build a better Falenan Empire. To make all things good and right in their view. They may not have used methods we like, but that does not make them evil.

Jesus Christ, I have never read something like this before. How can you call genocide "methods we don't like"? If I apply your logic on the 3rd Reich, Hitler was a really un-evil man. He just wanted to build a better German Reich. Ok, we don't like his methods- but annihilating nearly the complete Jewish people doesn't make him evil... The methods of the Godwins were definitely evil. I agree to the extent that in the Suikoverse the frontier between good-evil isn't always clear(Jowy is a good example...), but if you don't judge people from their actions, how can you then call someone evil/good? By his looks?

EDIT: Ah, I'm missing the point a bit, but that has really upset me. And the Godwins' goals aren't good, either. I think the comparison to the 3rd Reich is quite good.

[Tsharr]

Or how about the Godwins in S5? They sought to bring the world under control via the Sun Rune, and to build a better Falenan Empire. To make all things good and right in their view. They may not have used methods we like, but that does not make them evil.

Jesus Christ, I have never read something like this before. How can you call genocide "methods we don't like"? If I apply your logic on the 3rd Reich, Hitler was a really un-evil man. He just wanted to build a better German Reich. Ok, we don't like his methods- but annihilating nearly the complete Jewish people doesn't make him evil... The methods of the Godwins were definitely evil. I agree to the extent that in the Suikoverse the frontier between good-evil isn't always clear(Jowy is a good example...), but if you don't judge people from their actions, how can you then call someone evil/good? By his looks?

EDIT: Ah, I'm missing the point a bit, but that has really upset me. And the Godwins' goals aren't good, either. I think the comparison to the 3rd Reich is quite good.

We can apply the same logic to the "rehabilitation and removal" of the American Indian, the removal of Asians from Uganda, the Spanish Inquisition, the killing of the Savage Aztecs, etc etc etc.

Now then, in many of these instances, the goal of what the people were going for as usually declared as a good intent. They wanted a stronger nation, a peaceful nation, so on and so forth, and to do that, they needed to remove the aspects that were holding them back. Even today, you hear things (at least in the States) that we need to remove illegal aliens to make our nation a better, safer place.

A good goal. But a bad way to get it done.

And if you want to call all such acts evil, just look in the Book of Joshua and check out the entire annihilation of the residents of Jericho by the Israelites, down to every man, woman and child. Call that evil, and you'll have a couple million people (Christians and Jews) who will say it was a good thing, and God's will.

But I digress.

Edit: Take home message, nobody does anything with a bad intent. Nobody does anything because it is "evil." We always justify bad things we do to avoid calling ourselves evil. Everyone wants to call themselves a good person, even villains.

[Mikain Clan King]

already been stated by Konami that she's MIA, not dead. same with Barbarossa.

That is so awesome, maybe they will be the stars of Suikoden 6! Or at least the enemies.

[Zozma]

are you guys 100% sure that leknaat is a "good" guy anyway? it would be quite an interesting twist if it turned out her little
passive visits were more of an influence for rounding up or keeping track of the runes for some other purpose.... i wonder what shed be like if she got the other half of the gate... that rune has to be extremely powerful as a whole... (im not trying to suggest something stupid, I just hope by the end of the series the game has some REALLY surprising turns)

anwyay i really like characters like her, jeane, sierra and even geddoe... the ones who have actually managed to outlive a normal human lifespan and still keep their runes (well not jeane). (oh god but i hope in 6 you don't spend half of your time on a ship....)

anyway about windy... Do you think she had ANY human feelings left at all? i had just replayed sukoden1 and reading her conversation at the end... she seemed envious of the kings former wife saying he only loved her because she resembled her, then he said he wanted to remove the hurt look in windy's eyes but he failed.

i wonder if leknaat is worried about running into her now at all, tho she has the power to send back anything that windy summons....

[Mikain Clan King]

I don't think anyone is actually 100% sure that Leknaat is a good guy, she is like a keeper of all runes IMO...she always appears whenever a true rune chooses a master. I think she just goes off of destiny and the gathering of the stars, but who knows she may end up just using the Stars of Destiny for some personal ....umm.... 'thing'.