Yuber and Pesmerga - Overhyped

Hypotheses for, and analyses of, the various Suikoden characters.
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rhombus
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Re: Yuber and Pesmerga - Overhyped

Postby rhombus » Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:56 pm

Elves aren't human either and they're perfectly capable of being knights of an order. Also, ya, just by saying something won't be wrapped up until the end doesn't mean it's the definitive and final conflict of the Suikoverse, it just means that they'd probably rather keep the conflict as a recurring storyline throughout the entire series. Suikoden is all about details and continuity, and nothing is worse from a writing perspective than writing yourself into a corner and then having to go back on your story through either retconning or through some silly workaround story. It's best to keep things unknown and ambiguous for as long as possible, which is what they've done.

I personally agree that the battle is a bit too hyped up... really it hasn't meant much to the series at all. It was a very small sidestory in S1 and S2, and completely missing in S3-5. Yuber so far HAS been a key player in the Suikoverse, Pesmerga... not so much... Also, while it DOES seem to be that Yuber has something to do with chaos, there's really nothing that shows Pesmerga has anything to do with order/dharma. He seems pretty psycho and disorderly to me, personally. Their conflict always seemed far more personal to me, rather than some huge, epic, galactic struggle - the repurcussions of their conflict might be great, since they're both very powerful (and at least one of them is a true rune bearer), but the cause of their conflict could be that Yuber stole Pesmerga's lunch, or knocked up his sister, who knows.
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Re: Yuber and Pesmerga - Overhyped

Postby Vermillion.Twilight » Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:21 pm

Elves are human in the sense they are natural creatures. Thats what I mean.

Also you cant really say Pesmerga hasint been a key player since 90% of Suikoden players used him to kill Barbossa and the beast rune. That qualifies him as important.
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rhombus
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Re: Yuber and Pesmerga - Overhyped

Postby rhombus » Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:38 pm

All that means is that he's a popular character. He has no story basis for being in the party and isn't forced in. He's not even an automatic recruit.
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Re: Yuber and Pesmerga - Overhyped

Postby Vermillion.Twilight » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:40 pm

rhombus wrote:All that means is that he's a popular character. He has no story basis for being in the party and isn't forced in. He's not even an automatic recruit.


Whats that got to do with anything?

Thats like saying Leknaats not important.

For all you know he could be the most important character in the whole series...

You cant judge a characters importance if you know nothing about him.
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rhombus
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Re: Yuber and Pesmerga - Overhyped

Postby rhombus » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:10 pm

Vermillion.Twilight wrote:
rhombus wrote:All that means is that he's a popular character. He has no story basis for being in the party and isn't forced in. He's not even an automatic recruit.


Whats that got to do with anything?

Thats like saying Leknaats not important.

For all you know he could be the most important character in the whole series...

You cant judge a characters importance if you know nothing about him.


Uh, that's not anything like saying that. I'm saying that based on one's choices, there's a chance that Pesmerga isn't even in the game, and even if he is, nothing significant happens or changes (other than differences that happen due to having all 108 stars). You saying he's important just because people like to put him in their party has nothing to do with any plot significance (not to mention the 90% is a ridiculous overestimation, as plenty of players don't even recruit him let alone use him). Whether he's important to the plot of the series as a whole is of course unknown, but his role in the games we have seen so far CAN be judged, and based on that, his importance to this point has been quite minimal.
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Re: Yuber and Pesmerga - Overhyped

Postby Vermillion.Twilight » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:26 pm

Not really minimal at all

He has always had a key role in army battles...He has always been the 2nd best melee fighter.

Nothing about him is minimal...he is simply one of the best characters in the series.

You said 90% of suikoden players dont bother recruiting him? It takes 5 minutes flat both times...for the best front line fighter after Viktor.
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Re: Yuber and Pesmerga - Overhyped

Postby rhombus » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:40 pm

I didn't say 90% of the people don't use him, I was refuting your claim that 90% DO use him... I'm saying the number can't be anywhere near that high considering there are plenty of people who don't even recruit him in the first place. Also, I never said he's not good, he's a terrific character, but that has little to do with his importance PLOTwise.
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Re: Yuber and Pesmerga - Overhyped

Postby Vermillion.Twilight » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:09 am

rhombus wrote:I didn't say 90% of the people don't use him, I was refuting your claim that 90% DO use him... I'm saying the number can't be anywhere near that high considering there are plenty of people who don't even recruit him in the first place. Also, I never said he's not good, he's a terrific character, but that has little to do with his importance PLOTwise.


Who do you know who is actually a fan of the series who doesint recruit him.
Where are these imaginary people? I think his main role in army battles merits him security as important.
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Re: Yuber and Pesmerga - Overhyped

Postby rhombus » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:22 pm

There are plenty of fans of the series who miss stars, especially on their first playthrough. Not that they INTENTIONALLY miss him, but people miss stars all the time. Not to mention that the average joe person who plays a Suikoden game, a guy who plays through a game once and doesn't use manuals, FAQs, etc., I'm sure doesn't get the 108 stars, and Pesmerga being one of the later stars is one of the easiest to miss. He also appears in a place most people wouldn't revisit unless they knew he was there, either through foreknowledge via FAQ, manual, previous playthrough, or through just alot of random wandering (which, without a guide is really the best way to find all the stars in all the Suikodens, though it's very time-consuming).

Also, I still don't see how he has a "main role" in battles. He's useful, yes, but that's about it. By the way, I'm hardly the only one who thinks his role is small, here's a nice excerpt from Due Fiumi's Gensopedia entry on him: Although a relatively minor character in every sense of the word "minor," Pesmerga is generally regarded as one of the most thought-provoking characters in the entire Suikoden franchise. Whether he has a larger role in future games has yet to be determined. Nevertheless, he is also among the most popular figures in the Suikoden universe and will continue to be until the series concludes.

My thoughts in a nutshell. Intriguing, popular and mysterious? Yes. Cool design and strong/useful character? Fo' sho. Important plotwise so far in the games? Not really.
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Re: Yuber and Pesmerga - Overhyped

Postby Vermillion.Twilight » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:15 pm

Whats the point of even talking about this? We both know he will be a main plot character in the future.
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Re: Yuber and Pesmerga - Overhyped

Postby KFCrispy » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:19 am

Vermillion.Twilight wrote:Whats the point of even talking about this? We both know he will be a main plot character in the future.

That's not necessarily true since Murayama is the one who stated this in an interview and he left Konami as they were finishing Suikoden III.

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Re: Yuber and Pesmerga - Overhyped

Postby jbd86es » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:42 am

How long did the Second Fire Bringer War last? I bring this up because Pesmerga is one of the last Stars of Destiny to recruit in Suikoden 1 & 2; if the Gate Rune and Dunan Unification Wars lasted far longer than the Second Fire Bringer War, then Pesmerga may have been running late, explaining his absence in Suikoden 3. Also, he has a habit of waiting in places in which Yuber has never been shown or told to have been (Neclord's Castle, the Cave of Wind). In Suikoden 3, he could have been waiting in the destroyed Safir Clan Village's ruins waiting for the new FC to come pick him up (well, there wouldn't have been a Star of Destiny for him though).

I believe Pesmega and Yuber will return and play a large role in a future Suikoden. Also, there was a debate earlier about them being not human. Yuber is repeatedly referred to as not human, including a remark by himself in Suikoden 3. Not human does mean Kobold, elf, or dwarf; not human is a poor choice of words (it is ego-centric). It is the same mistake as saying humanoid when talking about multiple races (I'm sure elves, and lizards, and ducks would dislike being called humanoid rather than elfoid, etc.).

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Re: Yuber and Pesmerga - Overhyped

Postby kte03 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:30 am

I don't wanna get off-topic on this but Konami sorts of reminds me of the MK Staff (Midway). You never know if Konami makes their story plots based off fan theories. The same goes for MK. Many fans thought they saw a green ninja in the wood stage in MK1. They started calling him "Reptile" as he's some "super duper secret character". Ed Boon (Maker of MK) heard about this and decided to put him into the story.

Maybe Konami's playing it like that. Jeane starts off as some mysterious smexy lady who has this "big" secret. Later on, they actually implement her as the main characters in the later Suikos.

BUT, we'll never really know what happens >_> MAYBE SUIKODEN V IS THE LAST! BHWAHAHAHAHHAHAH :twisted:

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Re: Yuber and Pesmerga - Overhyped

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:36 pm

kte03 wrote:Many fans thought they saw a green ninja in the wood stage in MK1. They started calling him "Reptile" as he's some "super duper secret character". Ed Boon (Maker of MK) heard about this and decided to put him into the story.

Lemmy's edit: Raww, I have removed your pointless dig at kte03 , your point is valid without having to be confrontational about it. You know the rules on flaming, thanks.

What happened was they got a double flawless victory on the Pit stage thus getting to fight the character Reptile that was amazingly already in the game and then due to popular fan reaction he became playable in MKII. Add to that there isn't even a wood stage in MK1 and you're just being nonsensical.
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Re: Yuber and Pesmerga - Overhyped

Postby AteTrack » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:29 pm

Has anyone ever brought up why Pesmerga is chasing Yuber? We all know that Yuber has the Eightfold rune and that he's absurdly powerful and that for some reason Pesmerga needs to end this guy. Here are my 2 ideas that I've conjured up:

-Yuber somehow stole the Eightfold rune from Pesmerga
-Revenge for a loss of a loved one (lover, parents, or fellow trainer/sensai)

I know, "How do you steal a rune like that?" is going to come, but it's just an idea. Regardless, this battle could be like 8 games in the making in the end, so it's going to be epic/explosive and a lot of people are going to die. Is the Suikoden universe ready for something like that?


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