Pahn

Hypotheses for, and analyses of, the various Suikoden characters.
sunstar25
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Pahn

Postby sunstar25 » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:49 am

Once you reach Gregminster in Suikoden II and into the McDohl mansion, we notice that Pahn is there. Gremio's death does get carried over to SII and yet Pahn is up and about.

It seems the outcome of the duel between Pahn and Teo is still the same if you win or lose. Looks like Teo decided to spare Pahn and just had him thrown in prison.

darkphoenix
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Postby darkphoenix » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:16 pm

Never happened to me, the only explanation I can see to it would be if you transfer a data from suikoden 1 in which pahn won against teo and you missed some ther sod.

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executorofbalance
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Postby executorofbalance » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:35 pm

so what are you suggesting...?
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Postby darkphoenix » Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:56 pm

Sorry my post was badly typed, I meant that Pahn survived the duel with Teo, hence he is with Cleo in Suikoden 2. But You did not recruit all the characters in suikoden 1, so Gremio did not get resurected by Leknaat. And of course he is not there in Suikoden 2.

Can t find of any other explanation.

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Belle
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Postby Belle » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:47 pm

No, sunstar's right. If Pahn loses the duel, he supposedly gets executed. Cleo even mentions his death when you're at Lorimar. But yet, if you transfer Suikoden 1 data to Suikoden 2, he shows up during the McDohl quest as if nothing happened.

But I think this is just like one of those errors where some people can "die" in Suikoden 1 (such as Luc or Sheena in war battles) and yet miraculously show up in 2.

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Night
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Postby Night » Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:03 pm

Certainly it could be because, after the duel with Teo, Pahn wasn't really integral to the story at all (as far as I can remember, it has been a while). Thus it would require too much effort to have the game check the save data to see if a particular star was alive or dead, as I'd assume in Gremio's case it just takes the total to check if he is alive or dead. However, my programming skills are very lax, so I don't know if this is accurate or not.

It does, however, seem strange to be merely an oversight. Since whether he lived or died was very much a branch in the storyline (as opposed to just dying in war battles) it strikes me as strange that the designers of Suikoden I would forget this.
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Rune of Illusion
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Postby Rune of Illusion » Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:22 am

It is because the games follows a set ending. It doesn't matter if Gremio never survived or that if Pahn was executed after the battle, the canon ending is the Revival of Gremio and such.
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Night
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Postby Night » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:08 am

Rune of Illusion wrote:It is because the games follows a set ending. It doesn't matter if Gremio never survived or that if Pahn was executed after the battle, the canon ending is the Revival of Gremio and such.


Except, that, if you load in data that doesn't have 108 stars then Gremio is still dead, and it follows the non-canon ending (which essentially replaces Gremio with Ellie)
Ice has formed and there's snow between the tracks/ And I have seen the surface tear and I can't look back/ And cool low sun has blinded you for days from horizon to horizon can I dream this all away

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executorofbalance
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Postby executorofbalance » Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:04 pm

oh, that's kind of weird i guess. I haven't ever lost the Teo duel, and I always get the 108 to ressurect Gremio
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Oppenheimer
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Postby Oppenheimer » Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:55 am

It's because the system isn't smart enough to know the little details about who you recruited and who you didn't in SI.

It probably does something like this SI data = 108 stars = Greimo Alive
SII data < 108 stars = Greimo dead.

Pahn is not involved in the calculation and regardless of what happened to him he'll be there afterwards.

Just pretend it's his twin brother also named Pahn. Or they had cloning back then.

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executorofbalance
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Postby executorofbalance » Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:43 am

that's interesting...i wanna try it some time
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WaterMoon
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Postby WaterMoon » Sun May 06, 2007 5:46 pm

Oppenheimer wrote:Just pretend it's his twin brother also named Pahn. Or they had cloning back then.


They DID have cloning back then. Luc and Sasari are both clones of Hikusaak
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patapi
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Re: Pahn

Postby patapi » Mon May 07, 2007 6:50 am

sunstar25 wrote:Once you reach Gregminster in Suikoden II and into the McDohl mansion, we notice that Pahn is there. Gremio's death does get carried over to SII and yet Pahn is up and about.

It seems the outcome of the duel between Pahn and Teo is still the same if you win or lose. Looks like Teo decided to spare Pahn and just had him thrown in prison.

The same reason why any other returning characters would still be well and alive in S2, despite the player ended up having them killed in S1 war battles.

Otherwise, sweet holy runes, I would LOVE the series mechanics indefinitely if Luc's death in the S1 war battles could be carried over through S2 well into S3!

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Postby LanceHeart » Mon May 07, 2007 2:10 pm

That would basically defeat the entire purpose of Suikoden 3, now, wouldn't it? (not to mention making the Luca Blight battle in Suikoden 2 a pain if you're unlucky with the Fire Spears, Invention, and Lightning)
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Yuber
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Postby Yuber » Thu May 24, 2007 7:41 am

a funny thing happened to me once, very first time i played suikoden 1, back in 1996-97 or something, i lost the duel against teo with pahn but still i could use him as a character, i could put him in my party all the time as he was no longer classed as part of the story. obviously it was a glitch, he would never say anything either and his boar rune was in the storage thing.
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