Arshtat's intentions for Frey

sunstar25 · Post by **sunstar25** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:05 am

According to the in-game dialogue, it seems Arshtat wanted her son to get involved in politics and maybe sit in the Senate to keep the hard-lined nobility in line.

Even though Frey has no claim to the throne, he is of royal blood after all. If he had any female children, they would have a legitimate claim to the throne. Since Arshtat, Sialeeds, and Haswar all entered into a pact there would be only one line of succession to avoid the mistakes of their mothers. It seems Frey would have to stay single.

Post by **Oppenheimer** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:20 pm

I'm not quite following your logic. So, Frey gets married. As long as Lym gets married and has a daughter that shouldn't matter what Frey does, does it?

darkphoenix · Post by **darkphoenix** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:14 pm

I think what Sunstar is saying is that only Lymsleia is to have children -heir or heiress- so that there will be no claim to the throne from Frey's potential offspring. Just like Haswar and Sialeeds did, that is to say remaining single, and let Arshtat have children who would be the only one who could succeed her. Hence prenventing succession war.

Post by **Oppenheimer** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:56 pm

Oh I see. So you're saying that Frey's children might try to overthrow the kingdom. Well that's really the problem with a monarchy isn't it?

I suppose Frey would just have to be careful to raise his children to know that they don't need to be rulers but are given other positions of respect so they don't feel left out, like Commander of the Queen's Knights or someone important in the senate.

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:15 pm

I think you could raise a child as well as you possibly could but if the desire for the throne is there, its there. Let us take Haswar, Sialeeds and Arshtat for example. Their parents were the ones causing all the problems over succession in the first place and yet they managed to raise 3 very intelligent, respectable women. They made the pact to not have any children by Haswar and Sialeeds because of the people they were and obviously not taking note of their parents example before them.

My point is that no matter how well Frey were to raise a child, he wouldn't be the maker of their decisions and one day that person would be running their own life and have their own points of view on their standing in the Falenan monarchy. If you ask me, the oath to give only the queen the right to conceive is a very wise one. >.> It may be tough on him but if you are a part of the monarchy you have certain responsiblities that come before personal desires.

Post by **Oppenheimer** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:29 pm

This is basically a nature versus nurture argument. I think both have an effect on the child. There are some people that are just born bad seeds, but I think a large part of a person's personality comes from the job of the parents and the environment they grew up in. I don't think Frey should avoid having children at all just becaues he was to worry about this. But then I'm not royalty, perhaps it's better not to take the risk.

Not that I'm planning on having children regardless . . . but if Frey wants to I don't think he should stop because of what might happen. He should just try his best to raise people in a society that respects them for who they are even if that's not the crowned leader.

Mister Mugs · Post by **Mister Mugs** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:58 pm

I think this may be a case of private desires vs. public responsibilities. Frey would be forced to consider whether his desire for children outweighed any possible political complications his procreating may create. Of course, if possible, he could simply give up any blood right his female offspring would have to the throne in exchange for some other right of inheritance, or some such thing.

Of course, as he a male, and therefore has no right or claim of his own, this point may be moot, as the claim his possible daughters may have on the throne may be insignificant and unsupportable by people who would back such an action.

The real problem would occur if Lym's heir was hopelessly incompetant, in which case people may be willing to back a usurper.

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:27 am

Although I agree that Frey and Lym have taken Falena in to a new generation, the both of them being highly competant members of the monarchy and decent people to boot, however I think they need to respect the decision their aunt and mother made before them. Its one of the reasons that made them such good rulers of Falena, being able to put their country first which should come before their personal feelings no matter how indirect they may be. To be perfectly honest, Frey doesn't strike me as the type who would give up his commitment to the throne in order to procreate, but everyone perceives the hero in a different way I guess. ^^

To blindly go ahead and conceive without any regard as to the pain that previous generations have gone through because of this would be highly disrespectful but that doesn't mean to say if by some chance he were to desire a child more than having a hand in protecting his kingdom that he couldn't leave Falena or give up his blood right. Though I wonder if Lymsleia would bend and break the previous rules too keep him there? Again this would all be nullified if after those nine months, Frey's partner pops out a little boy but if its female they can hardly ask to send it back. >_>

I'm not ever going to have children so I guess I can't offer a compassionate side to this (XD) but I understand how important it can be to people and some see it as the only reason for the human races existance. Denying Frey this would seem like denying him his existance to a lot of people BUT if you are born in to a responsibility like that you can not afford to take risks when it will effect the thousands of people you rule over. I think his fame after the war would give any offspring he were to have a favourable opinion in the public eye at birth so I'm sure there would be an impact at the very least, no matter what the gender of his child. It would be nice to see him live happily ever after (with Luserina >_<) and offspring, I just don't see it happening but who knows?

kenderlyn · Post by **kenderlyn** » Tue May 22, 2007 12:42 am

This is not taking into account one thing. After the war, Haswar becomes concerned about the declining number of the royal family, and announces her own wedding later. When Sialeeds and Haswar entered that pact, Arshtat had two children, a sister and a cousin, if worst came to worst at that point, there was someone to carry on the bloodline. after the war, Lym, Frey and Haswar are all that's left, so the bloodline has been reduced. At this point, Frey's commitment to the throne may need him to have at least one child, so the bloodline is guaranteed to continue, whatever Lym does.

Or... whatever...

TrueEightfold · Post by **TrueEightfold** » Tue May 22, 2007 3:56 am

As a male, this would effect him immensely. If he was the type that would like to bare offspring, that is. A child to a male is the most important thing, because it carries on his name. If you don't have a child, your name dies with you. Even if its a female, epsecially in Falena, it means that in some form, your line continues.

Denying Frey this right is not a matter of putting country before personal desire, but that he is human and would be unjust of his country to ask him to do so.

Besides, with the Dawn and Twighlight runes back to govern the Sun Rune, Lym can bare the Sun Rune and remain absolute ruler forever. Well, at least till theres another uprising >_>

Post by **patapi** » Tue May 22, 2007 6:47 am

Fighting for the throne among family members is inevitable in a monarchy, to be quite honest. If the Prince did marry and produce a decently charismatic and competitive daughter who can (and intend to) rival Lym's heiress, the history might as well repeat itself.

Marrying off princes to foreign royals would help out somewhat, as hinted by some of the NPCs in the game.

Falenan_descent · Post by **Falenan_descent** » Tue May 22, 2007 9:53 am

I believe that Arshtat and Ferid were actually disappointed at first to learn that they had a son. Prince and Lymsleia are born quite a bit of time apart so it seems that the Queen and King must have been considering if they should even attempt to have another child in case it was a boy.

I could be seriously wrong. Lol. But, it IS Falena. But after Lymsleia was born they probobly started to treat him better.

Intraman · Post by **Intraman** » Tue May 22, 2007 12:03 pm

I would think that having the Prince marry and have children could be a benefit to Felana. If Lym dies before she can have children or is unable to produce a daughter or a varity of other sceniros, then the Prince's daughter or even grand daughter would have to take the thrown.

sunstar25 · Post by **sunstar25** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:46 pm

Falenan_descent wrote:I believe that Arshtat and Ferid were actually disappointed at first to learn that they had a son. Prince and Lymsleia are born quite a bit of time apart so it seems that the Queen and King must have been considering if they should even attempt to have another child in case it was a boy.

I could be seriously wrong. Lol. But, it IS Falena. But after Lymsleia was born they probobly started to treat him better.

Arshtat said it herself that she was blessed to have such fine children, both Frey and Lym. Princes in the past may have been mistreated as far as the throne is concerned. Arshtat and Ferid were good parents so it's unlikely that ever happened. If it did, he may never would have become Falena's savior in the future.

Post by **KFCrispy** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:14 am

Haswar announcing her wedding showed an end to that era, at least for herself; the whole reason the sisters chose not to marry was so they would not run into problems of the past... but now that her sisters are gone, Haswar can move on. If she happens to have children, they have that chance of trying to overthrow the kingdom, but I'm pretty sure trust has been restored to the entire family and country; there won't be any dirty business in Falena for a long time, and Frey will probably not have to make an oath to not have children or anything silly like that.

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