What if Tir???

Miklotov · Post by **Miklotov** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:30 pm

Don't forget Ain Gide or Culgan and Seed who weren't necessarily "bad" but just fighting for what or who they believed in.

Sniper_Zegai · Post by **Sniper_Zegai** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:40 am

Hey guys. Ive been this interested by this idea for some time but the general view is Tir would HAVE to go mad in order to be a bad guy. Im thinking that Tir would have a good reason.

Lets say Tir had a vision from the soul eater of thousands of deaths in the future. He knew who was responsible and decided to stop the problem before it started by getting together his own army with help from the Toran Republic of course and decide to destroy the kingdom. It would make sense, Tir would'nt have to be evil, gremio could still be with him and old characters from suikoden 1 could be seen as enemies.

It would'nt be that bad would it?

Iku · Post by **Iku** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:05 pm

it would be a little cheesy if tir turned into a psychopath. but like others have said a hero against you but not necessarly 'evil' is an idea i like. but good and evil are both easily changable and are viewed in the eye of the beholder. eg what luc was doing he believed to be right but was viewed as bad by others!

Nemesis · Post by **Nemesis** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:09 pm

hahahahaha!!

Iku · Post by **Iku** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:37 am

? eep

Miklotov · Post by **Miklotov** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:38 pm

I really hope that Konami doesn't kill him off or makes him some evil villain in a future installment

Gamer1826 · Post by **Gamer1826** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:32 pm

I don't think Tir or Riou would/should become full fledged characters. They don't have any personality. Literally. I'm not trying to say that their characters are drab, they're just not there. Tir and Riou (and anyone else in the series like them) have zero personality. There are two ways that you can interpret the way that those two characters acted in the game: Willingly going to war for whatever reason or being forced to go to war due to unlikable circumstances. This especially applies to Tir, since I believe the only option (in reality) that was given to decide was whether or not to kill Germio (indirectly, of course). Konami was a bit more lenient with Riou, but that doesn't change the fact that he was just like Tir: A character/sprite with a history in the game which provided the player with the illusion that s/he was given dominion over the game's events.

Technically, yes. Konami could place Tir into the next Suikoden game and slap some reason for his plunge into darkness. But that would take way too much more effort. They could create a better atmosphere using a new character in a new setting, rather than butchering an old one. Tir was Konami's way to fit the player's personality into the game, though obviously a bit poorly done. Taking that away from people by giving Tir dialouge and personality would be just... Odd. It would kill the creativity, verbalized to the public or not, that stems from a character like that. Rather than destroy that creative source, I think that Konami would take the more sensible path and come with something a little less... cliche.

Post by **patapi** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:24 am

Lazlo came alive in Tactics, and his standalone character seems fine with me. It was interesting to see him interacting with the other casts, beyond the player's direct control. All the while not breaking the feeling that one gets from his silent role in Suikoden IV.

Sniper_Zegai · Post by **Sniper_Zegai** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:52 am

I agree. Tir would'nt have to be really talkative you could have gremio do that for him and have tir come out with a few rare phrases like in the game. Ive said before that I would want an enemy who i know alot about. Who has a history and a soul. Bad guys in Suikoden come and go and nothing much is known about them. I think it would be a boost to the series to bring in baddies that have flavour. Pahn and Cleo could make an appearence. I would like it to feel like as your were gathering your own 108 stars that Tir was gatheing characters too. These are passing thoughts but the main point is it would'nt kill the character of Tir to have him in a future game.

Drei · Post by **Drei** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:57 am

Mebbe Tir can't be evil, but he sure can be emo

Gamer1826 · Post by **Gamer1826** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:00 pm

It just doesn't seem... right... to me. Maybe if you played as the empire or something of that sort, but that'd make a poor game by itself. I just don't see Tir suddenly turning evil. Maybe doing a Jowy/Luc sort of thing, like someone said earlier, where he finds the need to do things to 'save the world'. But that's been done already. Who knows, though? Anything can happen, and if does, maybe Konami can change my mind on the situation.

As for who would join him in his fall, if he had one, I doubt Gremio would have an objections. Pahn and Cleo might try to suade him to keep from turning evil, but I'm not sure whether or not they'd actually join him. It's possible, but certainly debatable. I'm not taking either side, just trying to toss up a bit more conversation.

Trying to recruit 108 Stars before someone else might be interesting though. It could play well with having to make descisions with a silent character.

Rezard · Post by **Rezard** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:00 pm

patapi wrote:Lazlo came alive in Tactics, and his standalone character seems fine with me. It was interesting to see him interacting with the other casts, beyond the player's direct control. All the while not breaking the feeling that one gets from his silent role in Suikoden IV.

Well if they are going to make an main hero an enemy they should use Lazlo instead, few care about him, while many care about Tir. The chances they mess up are smaller and it is easier to picture Lazlo as a villain.

On the other hand, many of us want to see Tir again, we want to see his history continue, so they could try bringing him back maybe for a smaller role first.

The only way I can see Tir becoming an enemy, is to see him as minion of Leeknaat, who would be your main enemy. We could have a true rune that is too dangerous to the world and Leeknaat would send Tir to take the rune away from you.

I can easily see Tir as an emo giving a speech about how using a rune will be meaningless, that he wonÂ´t be able to save anyone and in the end there will only be suffering.

Iku · Post by **Iku** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:31 pm

to me lazlo seemed far too nice to turn evil or even nasty! but tir is more believable , he did kill his own dad! id love to see a scence where cleo slaps tir round the face for being bad or something!

Gamer1826 · Post by **Gamer1826** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:38 pm

It still seems overly Jowy/Luc-esque. And I was always under the impressiong that Leknaat was the one who "balanced" the world, and couldn't exactly take sides in the battles. Only 'push' the star of destiny? If we were to make a new game where she fought against the main character, wouldn't that go against her typical cryptic mentor attitude towards the star of destiny? I doubt Tir would be the star again without being player controlled, and that seems unlikely to happen. And still, even if Leknaat was convinced to leave her position of neutrality in order to 'save the world' because of a vision, that seems far too like a repeat of Luc's downfall. Leknaat doesn't seem like the sort of character that would stray from her subtle, though major, part of the game. Especially not to attempt to destroy the star of destiny.

EternalOnslaught · Post by **EternalOnslaught** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:46 pm

Why would Tir become a villian anyways? Luc had a reason, maybe an odd reason but a reason to become the way he was. Tir has Gremio, I'm pretty sure Gremio would keep Tir in line, if he starts that crap up. It's an interesting idea, but Tir had his spotlight in S1. They could do the same thing, but why would they? It would be a waste of time, and just because he has the Life-death/Soul Eater Rune doesn't automatically make him a candidate as a goodguy transforming into a badguy, because of a rune. Luc didn't have a Gremio, he had Sarah, but she was mostly his slave, not literally but you get the picture. And one more reason, Tir isn't as selfish as Luc.