On Belcoot

Hypotheses for, and analyses of, the various Suikoden characters.
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Gorudo
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On Belcoot

Post by Gorudo »

<b>Possible Spoilers</b>

Now, I haven't finished the game yet, so I don't know if Oboro says anything about Belcoot's background. I'll continue with this anyway, and anyone who has done those investigations can just tell me if any info of the sort was uncovered.

From Belcoot's own mouth, he tells us he spent time in Kanakan. In Kanakan is the famed sword instructor, Roundier Haia. Roundier Haia teaches the Falcon style of swordsmanship. (I'm not gonna figure out how it got from Kika to Roundier, but bear with me) Since Belcoot has the Falcon Rune, this would imply he was a student of Roundier Haia. This would also mean he was a co-student of Valeria and Anita.

First off, Suikoden V takes place 6 years before the original. We don't know how long Valeria was in training with Roundier, but in Suikoden she seemed to be a pretty damn good sword user. Valeria and Anita were born in 432 IS. Suikoden I was in IS 455. Suikoden V began in 449. Valeria would have to have begun training in Swordsmanship at about 17.

Now, Belcoot is 28 according to a post here. This means he was born in 421. He could not have began fighting as a gladiator before the age of 14 or 15, and even that's questionable. (Ignore Shoon cause he doesn't make any sense) He must've fought as a gladiator for awhile judging by his knowledge of the arena and other aspects. So let's say three years. This puts him at 17 or 18 when he escaped the arena. He could not have made it straight to Kanakan to begin training with Roundier because he was a slave with no money. Let's say 2 years before he made it to Kanakan and began training. He's 19 or 20 at this point.

Sorry guys, I completely forgot where I was going with this. But I'm gonna post it anyway in case someone has something to add.
Jowy Atreides
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Post by Jowy Atreides »

I think you were trying to show how Belcoot's timeline isn't consistent with other things, but you seem to be wrong in a few places.

Morgan and Shoon were both very young when they fought as gladiators, so he could've been younger. There doesn't seem to be 'minimum age' requirement for being a gladiator, except that you have to be able to fight, and that's about it.

And yes, he is confirmed (through Lyon's reading of the Sacred Games contestants) that he has infact trained under "Master Haia", whom I can only assume is the Roundier Haia we don't know and kinda love.

We also don't know if Roundier Haia charges for his lessons. Valeria and Anita don't seem very wealthy, so it's quite possible that he does not charge, and only trains certain people or something.

Here's what Oboro says; take it however you want.
Belcoot:

1.) Belcoot used to be a gladiator, but he escaped ten years ago. After training himself abroad, he came back to participate in the Sacred Games. He made it all the way to the final match... But you know how that went.

2.) Believe it or not, as good as he is now, he was a pretty lousy gladiator back in the day. That's why no one knew who he was when he appeared in the Sacred Games.

3.) It seems he gets along well with Dinn because they both use those giant swords. I've seen 'em practice together, and they're not half-bad.
He must've escaped when he was 18, and was picked up some time before that. He was a lousy fighter, so he must've not been a gladiator very long.
Philweasel
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Post by Philweasel »

Lousy fighters quickly become corpses.


And yes, this isn't 20th century America, if you're poor or disadvantaged you're out doing a career by the time your physically able. Even the nobility lack any real stigma over when a child starts working (After all, in a place that lacks any real schooling system all your education is going to be private tutors or 'on the job' training)

Lyon seems to have been the Prince's bodyguard for a while. She's had special training, but she would still be mini. Luserina's fame suggests she's been running things for a while. Sorensen seems fairly compitent on his own so he must have been working with the professor for a while.
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patapi
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Re: On Belcoot

Post by patapi »

Gorudo wrote:Now, Belcoot is 28 according to a post here. This means he was born in 421. He could not have began fighting as a gladiator before the age of 14 or 15, and even that's questionable. (Ignore Shoon cause he doesn't make any sense) He must've fought as a gladiator for awhile judging by his knowledge of the arena and other aspects.
Might want to factor in Morgan's timeline into the picture.

Shoon is telling the truth.
Morningstar
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Post by Morningstar »

I just want to point out that Belcoot could not have become a gladiator younger than Shoon, otherwise he would be eyeless because Shoon tells you at the first time in Stormfist that before Arshtat & Ferid banned cruelty on gladiators a gladiator (in Shoon's words) "younger than me would have his eyes cut out just for being too young", this is not highly relevant but demonstrates that Belcoot had to be at least Shoon's age when he became a gladiator.
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Post by Jowy Atreides »

Cutting out everyone's eyes would've defeated the whole point behind taking Morgan's. Are you sure that's the correct quote? It doesn't sound right.
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Post by Morningstar »

I admit to fault on my part it is not an exact quote otherwise i would have put in a little box, but yes the info by shoon is accurate, he also mentions that after their eyes were cut out they still fought and were sold to foreign countries and he says in anger that he will never have to see a friend of his go through that, that may mean he is referring to Morgan and generalized, but Shoon ACTUALLY speaks in general terms, however moved by personal feelings.
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Post by Jowy Atreides »

Are you absolutely sure he was using plural nouns, not singular ones? The whole dialog was supposed to be a reference to Morgan, nothing more.
Angelis_Taleria
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Post by Angelis_Taleria »

Jowy's right, he was referencing one gladiotor, Morgan. Besides, I doubt they would've taken Belcoot's eyes, he, apparently, was a sucky gladiotor before he left the country.
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Morningstar
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Post by Morningstar »

Yes I pointed out the possibility that he was referencing Morgan then generalizing, I don't know about the japanese version but the english dialogue is vague, but since i cant get the exact quote i dont want to mislead anyone.
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lifesucksdie
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Post by lifesucksdie »

**reviving the dead**

you idiots... the quote that Shoon said had nothing to do about age. He merely said something along the lines like he knew a gladiator once who was so good that they cut his eyes out and yet he still kept winning. GOD. Sorry I couldn't stand it to be left like this.
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Night
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Post by Night »

lifesucksdie wrote:**reviving the dead**

you idiots... the quote that Shoon said had nothing to do about age. He merely said something along the lines like he knew a gladiator once who was so good that they cut his eyes out and yet he still kept winning. GOD. Sorry I couldn't stand it to be left like this.
Actually, that's completely wrong. He made the reference about a gladiator who was younger than him.
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Re: On Belcoot

Post by Zanallen »

I just replayed that part yesterday and Shoon says something along the lines of a gladiator younger than him was too good and so they cut out his eyes. The gladiator still did pretty well and so they sold him to some foreigners. Basically, despite Morgan's age, he was damn good and I can only assume he was messing up the system by winning all of his battles. The nobles decided to give him a "little handicap", but he was still winning....As they sold him and cut their losses.


Edit: Ahem, not to revive a dead topic of course...But I figured I'd help clarify things.
KFCrispy
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Re: On Belcoot

Post by KFCrispy »

in conclusion, you misquoted Shoon for generalizing that people younger than him would have their eyes cut out. that was completely wrong.
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