Gizel's Intentions SPOILERS

Hypotheses for, and analyses of, the various Suikoden characters.
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Serpent
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Postby Serpent » Tue May 09, 2006 11:51 pm

I think Gizel had a severe case of oneitis for Sialeeds and decided to play along with her plan once he figured her out.
You can close your eyes from reality but not memories.

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deedlitmurata
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Postby deedlitmurata » Tue May 09, 2006 11:52 pm

Haha, I can only think that Gizel and Sialeeds were perfect for each other.
Man is powerful enough to change destiny. No matter how futile our struggles seem, they all make a difference!

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Serpent
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Postby Serpent » Tue May 09, 2006 11:54 pm

deedlitmurata wrote:Haha, I can only think that Gizel and Sialeeds were perfect for each other.

I can actually picture him doing immature things than her yelling at him rofl. :lol:

Probably my favorite Suikoden couple though.
You can close your eyes from reality but not memories.

Lurker1
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Postby Lurker1 » Tue May 23, 2006 8:05 pm

I Made a post about him but it got locked (and I did a search must have overlooked this one*shrugs*)

Anyway Gazel is one of the most complex and interesting
characters in the series to date. I mean he gives you so many mixed signals about what he is really thinking and his true intentions that it leaves you wondering.

I honestly feel that he did not agree with what his father was doing. I mean at the cut scene before the engagement ceremony he closes his eyes and bows his head like he is gathering his resolve to do something that he in not particularly proud of or wants to do but feels he has to do.

Also there is his appointment of Chelderich as a knight and not Dolph. His praise of the prince when Lugers Fleet is defeted( which is deserved I know). Bringing Sialeeds over to his side giving her the twlight rune. Then there is the point of when they are in Lunas and they send an army to "catch the prince", I mean its like saying here we come to get you they could have as sent Dolph with members of Neather Gate I doubt that Georg or Lyon would have been able to stop them. Its almost like he didn't want his father to win but was just standing by him out of loyalty or something.

The facts are weak I know like I said in my other post but Gazels character makes him both very interesting and yet confusing at the same time. Guess we will never know the truth about him.

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SinaiBeach
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Postby SinaiBeach » Tue May 23, 2006 11:06 pm

Gizel is probably bi-polar and has 2 completely different personalities and yes he is the most confusing yet interesting character to date. Its so hard to figure out what hes after and what his ultimate goal is. But that is the beauty of his character. Complex and strange to boot.
And Let Us Not Lose Compassion....For Those Who Have Yet To Be Pardoned....

Darian
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Postby Darian » Wed May 24, 2006 12:25 am

Lurker1 wrote:I Made a post about him but it got locked (and I did a search must have overlooked this one*shrugs*)

Anyway Gazel is one of the most complex and interesting
characters in the series to date. I mean he gives you so many mixed signals about what he is really thinking and his true intentions that it leaves you wondering.

I honestly feel that he did not agree with what his father was doing. I mean at the cut scene before the engagement ceremony he closes his eyes and bows his head like he is gathering his resolve to do something that he in not particularly proud of or wants to do but feels he has to do.

Also there is his appointment of Chelderich as a knight and not Dolph. His praise of the prince when Lugers Fleet is defeted( which is deserved I know). Bringing Sialeeds over to his side giving her the twlight rune. Then there is the point of when they are in Lunas and they send an army to "catch the prince", I mean its like saying here we come to get you they could have as sent Dolph with members of Neather Gate I doubt that Georg or Lyon would have been able to stop them. Its almost like he didn't want his father to win but was just standing by him out of loyalty or something.

The facts are weak I know like I said in my other post but Gazels character makes him both very interesting and yet confusing at the same time. Guess we will never know the truth about him.


I don't think they're weak at all and your theory actually makes more sense to me. He seems conflicted, like he didn't want to betray his father but couldn't bring himself to openly defy him, either, so instead he would just undermine him

I don't like the idea that he was "just messing around" although I agree with others that that is a part of it. While undermining his father he was allowed to play Commander of the Queen's Knights as if he were a child playing a game.

At the end of the day I don't think Gizel was quite "all together" if you know what I mean but I do think he had at least some real intentions in doing what he did.

Philweasel
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Postby Philweasel » Wed May 24, 2006 1:27 am

"You look like you're enjoying yourself"
"Do I father?"
"Don't lose sight of our true goals"

Marscal seemed to suspect something, and his expression after that scene is telling. I think he knows his son's a nutter.

xXSqualleoNXx
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Postby xXSqualleoNXx » Wed May 24, 2006 7:52 am

He knew his son was not truly behind him and could screw his plans up. And he did, by never reporting Sialeed's true intentions to his father and naming people to positions they didn't deserve. In the end, he wasn't behind his father at all, he was firmly followings Sialeed's plan. After Sialeeds is killed because of Alenia reporting her death beforehand (It was the strain of containing the Sun Rune that killed her), he pretty much disregarded his own life, and chose to force the Hero to kill him.
Hmm...

Felenan Prince
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Postby Felenan Prince » Wed May 24, 2006 12:41 pm

What i cant understand is if mascral knew that his son may be undermining his plans why didn't he stop him?

xXSqualleoNXx
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Postby xXSqualleoNXx » Wed May 24, 2006 4:44 pm

It's his only son. Marscal may have been cold on the outside, but he did hold his family dear, especially after the deaths of his wife and cousin. What I still don't find any explanation, other than the Godwin's just went plain nutso, was them taking in Dolph even though he had killed Marscal's wife.
Hmm...

DarkShadowX

Postby DarkShadowX » Wed May 24, 2006 4:47 pm

xXSqualleoNXx wrote:It's his only son. Marscal may have been cold on the outside, but he did hold his family dear, especially after the deaths of his wife and cousin. What I still don't find any explanation, other than the Godwin's just went plain nutso, was them taking in Dolph even though he had killed Marscal's wife.


Might as well add the rest of Nether Gate too, since Dolph was with them.

xXSqualleoNXx
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Postby xXSqualleoNXx » Wed May 24, 2006 4:55 pm

DarkShadowX wrote:
xXSqualleoNXx wrote:It's his only son. Marscal may have been cold on the outside, but he did hold his family dear, especially after the deaths of his wife and cousin. What I still don't find any explanation, other than the Godwin's just went plain nutso, was them taking in Dolph even though he had killed Marscal's wife.


Might as well add the rest of Nether Gate too, since Dolph was with them.


He didn't take the whole of Nether Gate. Just fragments that were left behind when it's leaders fled Falena. Dolph acted as an interum leader, filling the void left behind in the Nether Gate structure.
Hmm...

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Kirin
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Postby Kirin » Thu May 25, 2006 11:00 am

Marscal was nothing if not practical. He wanted what he saw as a "strong" Falena, and was willing to do whatever it takes to get there. Dolph was an excellent assassin and spy, and he was available after the official disbanding of Nether Gate, so I'm sure Marscal decided that if he could make use of him it was worth putting aside any personal feelings.

Heptade
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Re: Gizel's Intentions SPOILERS

Postby Heptade » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:27 pm

Gizel has to be the most underrated antagonist of the series, and one of the most complex characters. I loved the fact that he never gave a huge, unnatural rant explaining his motivations in detail (before the duel, he does lament the absurdity of having multiple parties waging wars to make Falena better, but never says what he himself thinks), leaving most of his actions up to interpretation.

I think he had the brains to be a mastermind as capable as Lucretia, seeing how easily he tricked his way to victory during the Sacred Games. But he just didn't care much for his father's ambitions, or for pretty much anything. The previous war had left him a depressed, broken man.

It seems he played both sides, without real motivation, just to see how things would unfold. He did go along most of his father's plans, but also subtly hindered them. It's unlikely he couldn't predict the outcome of making Childerich a Queen's Knight. Even Alenia, Gizel's number one groupie, thought it was completely insane. Yet Gizel seemed totally lucid and never regretted his decision, even after it cost him the support of automatic allies.

The only person he still cared about was Sialeeds, and it seems he was one of the very few who fully understood her actions. When Sialeeds "betrayed" the Prince, Gizel, even though he knew she was ultimately opposed to the Godwins, secretly supported her actions, and that's the only time in the game where his actions were backed by any kind of motivation. When Sialeeds died, he went along with her plan and committed suicide by Prince.

His death scene is interesting, as it's pretty much the only point in the game where his sociopathic façade faded and he showed some emotion. It seems he had grown somewhat attached to Lymsleia, saying his only regret was to never see the Queen she'd become. Lym, while never liking him, seems to, at least, understand him in the end: while it's unclear whether she cries because she is finally reunited with her brother or because Gizel has died, she did rush to his side after he was defeated and had called him off on his fake cruelty before the duel.

His last thoughts were still for Sialeeds.

Heptade
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Re: Gizel's Intentions SPOILERS

Postby Heptade » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:30 pm

Another thing I noticed: when we first meet him, he "rescues" the party, but the way he acts is incredibly fishy. Sialeeds says something like "He wants us to be suspicious."

(The following is pure speculation and possibly makes very little sense.)

Then he manages to win the Sacred Games through shady schemes. He doesn't get caught, and nobody can prove anything, but it is clear he is dirty. Which is why everyone is on their guard during the night of the assassination, so no one falls for the drug. Marscal wanted Sialeeds dead as well. Gizel had to look like he at least tried to kill her, but I think her survival was part of his plan.

Maybe he actually had motivation: he wanted to rid Falena of its power-hungry nobility (including himself), but for his whole scenario to work, it had to seem realistic. And Arshtat had to die: she was a walking time bomb who could literally destroy her own country on a whim. In fact, the Godwins didn't even need to kill her, as someone on her side did it before they could.

His final confrontation with Freyjadour really looks like a staged suicide on his part, and in his speech, he makes it clear (or Lymsleia makes it clear by calling it) that at least a part of what we had seen from him since the beginning (i. e. a smug jerk) was an act.


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