Pesmerga

Hypotheses for, and analyses of, the various Suikoden characters.
demon eye
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Post by demon eye »

Exactly, we don't know what the consequences of destroying a True Rune could be. It is very possible that the Suikoden World could go on without the True Wind Rune. All we know is that the True Runes are the "closest" things to gods in the Suikoden World and that they "represent" forces that appear in the world. The True Wind Rune could just as simply be the very essence of wind and not be the wind itself.

Let me further explain my aforementioned statement. What I meant by saying that the True Wind Rune could just be the essence of wind, is similar to pineapple extract in a way. The extract is the essence of pineapple, or the pineapple flavor. It takes the essence of what would be the true pineapple and breaks it down into a tangent form. So, I'm saying that the True Wind Rune can simply represent the wind and not be the wind in its entirety.

So I wouldn't assume that one True Rune could not fill in for the role of another, not meaning that one True Rune will take on the role of the other, but I'd say it could be possible that if one True Rune is destroyed then another could phase its essence right out of existence because as we know there is generally natural opposites to each True Rune. So, I'd say that it isn't unlikely that Order could phase Chaos out or vice versa without destroying the entire world.
Turin Turambar
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Post by Turin Turambar »

I wouldn't mind if they destroyed the true wind rune and there was no more wind.

By the way, I live in Oklahoma.... ya know.. where the wind comes sweeping down the plain.... and whipping in circles and picking up dust and houses and cows and moving everything to another part of the state. Yeah, I could do without wind.
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Fliktor
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Post by Fliktor »

I wouldn't mind if they destroyed the true wind rune and there was no more wind.
Just because you destroy the True Wind Rune wouldn't stop the element of wind being around in nature. The wind wouldn't just stop blowing.

Just the same as if you destroyed the Eight-Fold Rune (if it is indeed the Chaos Rune), it wouldn't stop choas. Nor if you destroyed the Night Rune, would night time stop existing.

The Dragon Rune would stop the Dragons from living, as that is it's power, to allow dragons to live. But you can't say that the Eight-Fold Rune would mean no more chaos.
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Jowy Atreides
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Post by Jowy Atreides »

That was speculation on my part, but where is your statement coming from?
Last edited by Jowy Atreides on Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mathiu Silverberg
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Post by Mathiu Silverberg »

I know this is about as off topic as it gets, but here's what I do know about the world of Suikoden.

We have several countries; Toran, Dunan, Grasslands, Harmonia, Zexen, Nameless Lands, Falena, Kooluk, the Island Nations, Gaien, the Southlands, and Kanakan.

Toran itself is connected to, as far as I remember from the maps, Dunan, Kooluk, and Falena.

Dunan is connected to the Grasslands, which are connected to Harmonia, and a land mass to the north that I think was the Nameless lands (North the Zexen).

Kooluk is attached to the Island Nations, and the Island Nations are connected to Gaien.

So, if the destruction of a True Rune can destroy the continent, isn't that pretty much destroy all of what we know of the Suikoden world, except maybe some of the Island Nations and Gaien? If the destruction of a Rune can destroy the continent that Grasslands, Harmonia, Dunan, Toran, Falena, Kooluk, and maybe the Nameless Lands and Kanakan, who's to say that it wouldn't be destroying the entire world? Kooluk us right by the Island Nations and Gaien. It could easily get that far.

The stroy of the games plainly stats that the 27 True Runes are like the Gods of the world. Luc even says that he wants to destroy God, meaning his Rune.

Picture a globe being held up by 27 poles all evenly placed. Take one of the poles away, what do you think happens? The rest loose their balance and drop the globe.

To me, it almost sounds like some folks are putting the game mechanics into what the story has said, but they are two different things. If there is anything that the Rune of Punishment has shown us, it's that we really haven't even SEEN the destructive force of a True Rune yet. We only get to control a fraction of that power, and at that, the Rune of Punishment prolly could have done even more damage if Hero4 hadn't been focusing on only the Kooluk and not destroying the Obel forces with them.

As far as I can tell, I'm providing the info to back myself up. Everyone else is providing speculation, and they're telling me I'm wrong. I want to be proved wrong, but I will fight for what I do know and sanctity of a really good series. Give me something that is IN the Suikoden series story or right from the mouths of Konami.

Also, the Night Rune doesn't control the night-time. It's like the Dragon Rune for vampires, lycanthropes, skeletons, and other evil creatures that draw power from the night. The Blue Moon Rune is the Rune of Compassion and Destruction. Like the Sovereign Rune, it transforms its host into something else.

P.S. Sorry if this post has offended anyone is anyway. My theory on Yuber and Pesmerga is that, just a theory. I came up with it because of what I've learned in playing the Suikoden series and from the into I've read on this site.
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demon eye
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Post by demon eye »

As far as I can tell, I'm providing the info to back myself up. Everyone else is providing speculation, and they're telling me I'm wrong. I want to be proved wrong, but I will fight for what I do know and sanctity of a really good series. Give me something that is IN the Suikoden series story or right from the mouths of Konami.
But, you're providing speculation as well. The fact is that we don't know what the result of destroying a True Rune will do or if it is even possible to destroy a True Rune at all.
So, if the destruction of a True Rune can destroy the continent, isn't that pretty much destroy all of what we know of the Suikoden world, except maybe some of the Island Nations and Gaien? If the destruction of a Rune can destroy the continent that Grasslands, Harmonia, Dunan, Toran, Falena, Kooluk, and maybe the Nameless Lands and Kanakan, who's to say that it wouldn't be destroying the entire world? Kooluk us right by the Island Nations and Gaien. It could easily get that far.
This is speculation, as well. Notice you say IF. "If" is not a word you would use to provide evidential fact. "If" is a question word, signalling a possibility but saving room for doubt. It is the signal of a unproven hypothesis. I'm not saying you're wrong or anyone else is, but you are saying everyone is offering speculation when you are doing the exact same thing. We don't know what a True Rune can truly do, so everyone has to speculate on their abilities.

Also, Luc is not the foremost authority on everything that is the True Runes. He knows the True Wind Rune and is still left in the dark by it at times, but he is not an expert on every other True Rune.
To me, it almost sounds like some folks are putting the game mechanics into what the story has said, but they are two different things.
What else are they suppose to use if not the game mechanics and what is stated in the story? How are they two different things? Yes, we don't know the extent of a True Rune's power, but we can only use what has been shown to provide factual evidence. We can't just make up something that has not been shown and say that it is truth..that would be unsubstantiated evidence and that would be worse than speculation.
Also, the Night Rune doesn't control the night-time. It's like the Dragon Rune for vampires, lycanthropes, skeletons, and other evil creatures that draw power from the night. The Blue Moon Rune is the Rune of Compassion and Destruction. Like the Sovereign Rune, it transforms its host into something else.
We don't know exactly what the Night Rune controls. They state that it has bearing on demons and monsters, but no one knows if it is limited to just that. The Blue Moon Rune governs over vampires as it allows for them to be created. The Night Rune can be used to destroy them, so in essence it kind of opposes the Blue Moon Rune's creation. And lycanthropes are not monsters. They are actually a race similar to the kobolds, duck clan, lizard clan, and nekobolds.

The Sovereign Rune has the ability to transform it's bearer where as the Blue Moon Rune allows for the creation of vampires from humans. It's not really a change like the Golden Hydra. Vampires were once humans, they just survive on the compassion of the Blue Moon Rune or the blood of their victims. In essence the Blue Moon Rune creates a whole new race of beings, not an actual transformation in the direct sense of the word.
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Clangeddin
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Post by Clangeddin »

Could it not be that the story of Pesmerga/Yuber is very similar to the Windy/Leeknat one?
I said "similar" not the same, because of course Leeknat doesnt have the same personality as pesmerga.
What I mean is, they both come from the "Black Knight" clan, that clan had 2 runes, Eightfold and Sevenfold. In this clan it was teached that both Dharma and Chaos are necessary in the world and neither of em is good or bad as life has different shades of gray (like someone said) That clan has been exstinguished hundereds of years ago by humans greedy for power (maybe by Harmonia/Hikusaak) and Pesmerga and Yuber are the sole survivors which bear the two runes.
After the killing of the clan, YUber has gone crazy, he does not really seek revenge but just chaos and destruction to forget the pain ["Will I be ever free of my pain?"], with (of course) the influence of the Eightfold, this reflects his nature of Chaos.
Pesmerga, instead (with the influence of the Sevenfold) after the accident shut his own soul and closed his hearth and became almost a walking "ghost", that does not make too much commotion (To resemble the aspects of Dharma).
The fact that Pesmerga constantly search for YUber is that he wanna make sure that Yuber is alive and that he can duel with me and to leave with a TIE, just to be sure that the incarnations of Dharma and Chaos have still the same amount of power/importance in the world which is necessary for the "Balance". Of course this should be done by Yuber too, but maybe the pain made him so crazy that he does not care anymore about the Balance that he was tought at the Black Knight Clan, he just wants to end his own suffering and maybe he cant do that commiting suicide, so the task is completely on the shoulders of Pesmerga.
Of course with this I mean that Yuber is evil only on the appearence but in the end he's not evil as Persmerga is not completely good, something more like The Ying Yang simbol...
Well thats just my reasoning, something I came up with thinking a bit about it, nothing of this is certain....

I bet that Konami after reading this will change the finale because I KNOW IT HAD TO BE THIS WAY!!!

LOL, Just kidding (for the last part). :lol:
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Clangeddin
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Post by Clangeddin »

I killed the topic.... sniff :cry:
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Vextor
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Post by Vextor »

A few correction on factual errros.
We have several countries; Toran, Dunan, Grasslands, Harmonia, Zexen, Nameless Lands, Falena, Kooluk, the Island Nations, Gaien, the Southlands, and Kanakan.
Kooluk may likely not exist in the year 475 (Suikoden 3 timeline), and Gaien was absorbed into the Island Nations. Southlands is not a country either--it's just a general reference in regards to "sothern lands" which can include anywhere south of Dunan or Toran. Kanakan also isn't a country, it's a region.
Toran itself is connected to, as far as I remember from the maps, Dunan, Kooluk, and Falena.
Toran isn't connected to Falena. What map did you look at? Konami states that Falena exists far south of Toran, beyond at least two nations.
Havok

Post by Havok »

Pesmerga69 wrote:Yuber could of killed Pesmerga in the 15 or 10 or 5 year gap bettween Suikoden 2 and 3. :shock:
suikoden 3 takes place 50 years after 2.
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Post by highwind44029 »

Havok wrote:
Pesmerga69 wrote:Yuber could of killed Pesmerga in the 15 or 10 or 5 year gap bettween Suikoden 2 and 3. :shock:
suikoden 3 takes place 50 years after 2.
No, Suikoden 3 takes place 15 years after Suikoden 2.
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Fliktor
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Post by Fliktor »

suikoden 3 takes place 50 years after 2.
Didn't you notice how people like Tuta, Futch, Apple and Lucia weren't all acient?
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Vextor
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Post by Vextor »

Apparently not, maybe they all had true runes!
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Fliktor
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Post by Fliktor »

That's one hell of a theory for your site!
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Havok

Post by Havok »

yea guys sorry bout the misinformation, i was thinking of the 50 yrs between the first Flame Champion and the current one.
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