Yuber & the Bright Shield Rune

True Wind Bearer · Post by **True Wind Bearer** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:45 am

We all know Yuber despises the Bright Shield Rune, right?
We know this beacuse when Riou enters Greenhill city with Yuber inside, Yuber says something along the lines off him disliking the Bright Shield Rune.

Why is this, do you think?

My theory is, and please hear me out, that Yuber hates the Runes born under Shield and likes the ones born under Sword (a.k.a. good-evil).
His Eight-Fold Rune, I believe, was born under Sword, seeing as it represents Chaos. For those of you who disagree that this rune represents Chaos, forgive me, think of it representing what you think.
He also has, as far as I know, nothing against the Beast-Rune, the True Wind Rune, and Jowy's Black Sword Rune...I think...
Please shed some light onto this subject, you can tell that this is 100% theory...

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:28 am

As odd as it sounds, the Suikoden Three manga states that "Shield" is Chaos and "Sword" is Order. If the Eightfold Rune is indeed the Rune of Chaos then it would probably be under "Shield" and not "Sword". The Bright Shield Rune, if it has any alignment at all, would probably be under "Shield" as well, seeing as they have the same name.

True Wind Bearer · Post by **True Wind Bearer** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:32 am

Now THAT's weird...maybe it was a typo?
Naw, I doubt it.
Well since that's been said...maybe he wants to destroy runes of his own kind..."Order"...?

xXSqualleoNXx · Post by **xXSqualleoNXx** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:35 am

Now that doesn't make much sense. Bravo, for confusing us even further, Whoever does the manga. I guess we need to find another reason seeing as he loves Chaos.

Agremsep · Post by **Agremsep** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:22 am

As odd as it sounds, the Suikoden Three manga states that "Shield" is Chaos and "Sword" is Order.

What the hell....Is there anyone that can confirm that the affinity of Sheild/Sword to Chaos/Order please?

Viki · Post by **Viki** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:09 am

Jowy Artreides:
As odd as it sounds, the Suikoden Three manga states that "Shield" is Chaos and "Sword" is Order.

Are u sure of this i don't mean to be rude but what if u r mistaken

Vincent of Scarlet Moon · Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:27 am

Viki wrote:Jowy Artreides:
As odd as it sounds, the Suikoden Three manga states that "Shield" is Chaos and "Sword" is Order.

Are u sure of this i don't mean to be rude but what if u r mistaken

Jowy Artreides is not one to type up something for the hell of it without checking if it's correct first.

Crowley's_Apprentice · Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:43 pm

Maybe Yuber hates the bright shield because of competition against his own chaos... or maybe it was just a mistranslation.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:56 pm

The source is the Suikoden Three manga (as I already said), volume five.

Geddoe says this, I think. I let my friend borrow my Suikoden Three mangas to get him interested in the series so I can't check at the moment.

I'm guessing that since HowlingGuild fact-checks the mangas it's official.

Edit: Yuber's hatred of the Bright Shield Rune is in the Japanese version too.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:41 pm

It is true. I have up trough volume 5 in english. 'Shield' is Chaos and 'Sword' is Order. This is also mentioned in the Suikoden 3 game, as well. So, Jowy Atreides is correct. Also, it's not weird for 'Shield' to represent Chaos. 'Sword' represents the power to enforce. Enforcement or the arm of the law leans towards Order. 'Shield' is the protector of growth and revolution. It's not uncommon to show the 'Shield' as the arbitor of guardian of change. Besides, it would only seem weird to those who believe Chaos to be 'evil' and Order to be 'good' which is not necessarily true. Change has many benefitial things to consider as does Order.

Yuber's hatred for the Bright Shield Rune could be due to the fact that Yuber despises the existence Yuber is forced to uphold. Just imagine, Yuber is believed to be a being outside the normal realm of morality. Yuber clearly states that Yuber is glad not to be frail as humans.

So, a superior creature being bound by rules governed under Chaos would cause that creature bound by those laws to despise the existence of the arbitor of those rules. Therefore, Yuber, possibly a being of Chaos, despises the rules inherent to his nature spelled out by the existence of the 'Shield' in which the Bright Shield Rune symbolizes.

This is only a theory, though.

LaLaLaVinCE · Post by **LaLaLaVinCE** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:00 am

yeah...i can also confirm that the sword = order while the shield = chaos...its stated clearly at the S3 manga...

Kahlai · Post by **Kahlai** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:02 pm

Well, most theories of what power the Eightfold Rune has, say that they believe it gives Yuber power to summon/command monsters.

And... this is a strech, forgive me... commanding something is an act of order, not chaos, right? So the Eightfold rune may be a rune of order, and as such he dislikes the Bright Shield Rune, a rune of chaos (or change).

It's merely a theory, but it makes sense to me.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:21 pm

That depends on how you define order and if you are using order as a noun or verb. Order as noun can be defined as law or a commandment. Order as a verb can be defined as to command. Unfortunately, from what we've seen summoning seems to be a power that is not only associated with a True Rune. So, basing the fact that the Eightfold Rune allows Yuber to summon really can't associate him with the side of Order. Also, Chaos can be commanding in a sense, as well. It commands change and the absence of uniformity. Chaos commands lawlessness and anarchy, as well. Therefore, commanding something is not specifically orientated around order in the sense of the word.

Vincent of Scarlet Moon · Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:30 pm

It could be Konami simply changing the story as they see fit again.

Kahlai · Post by **Kahlai** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:09 am

demon eye wrote:That depends on how you define order and if you are using order as a noun or verb. Order as noun can be defined as law or a commandment. Order as a verb can be defined as to command. Unfortunately, from what we've seen summoning seems to be a power that is not only associated with a True Rune. So, basing the fact that the Eightfold Rune allows Yuber to summon really can't associate him with the side of Order. Also, Chaos can be commanding in a sense, as well. It commands change and the absence of uniformity. Chaos commands lawlessness and anarchy, as well. Therefore, commanding something is not specifically orientated around order in the sense of the word.

While I understand your reasoning, that seems like it's just a semantics issue. I wasn't so much trying to say Yuber's rune is a Rune of Order, based on his ability to command monsters. What I was trying to say (and after re-reading it, I see I did a bad job of it) Was that by commanding armies, he gets order. Like when a judge calls order in the court.

This definition is from Dictionary.com, and is more the kind of "order" I was referring to.

The established system of social organization: â€œEvery revolution exaggerates the evils of the old orderâ€ (C. Wright Mills).
A condition in which freedom from disorder or disruption is maintained through respect for established authority: finally restored order in the rebellious provinces.

So, I kind of see Yuber as the commanding general/king of the things he summons.

I hope that makes sense.