Yuber & the Bright Shield Rune

[heartreborn]

IMO , as I'm buddhist.

The eightfold in buddhism 's referring to 8 noble paths leading the way to end misery.

By the way the main propose of the eightfold 's to lead a person to the nirvana where his soul 'll be at rest , no rebirth , no reincarnation , and also no suffering. (nirvana 's the greatest thing in budhist way , they said that only the buddha and some greatest monk can reach nirvana)

So the concept of eightfold rune IMO 'd be the rune that make an eternal end (nirvana) to all things , as for myself I dunt think what yuber doing 's anything on eightfold paths(He keep killing with nomercy) the only thing he's doing that related to eightfold 's he's trying to end-destroy every living , also when he challenge geddoe he said " I'll put an end to your misery" which somehow relate to eightfold concept. So I wonder if yuber's thinking that killing is the way he can send everyone to eternal end.

back to the subject , so why'd yuber seems to dislike the bright shield.

I think the rune of beginning concept 's somehow opposed to eightfold rune

the eightfold 's presenting eternal end with no reincarnating as it's the best way for the soul to rest.

and the rune of beginning 's presenting the starting which's oppesed to ending.

so I wonder if yuber's against the rune of beginning , not just the bright shield by the way "the end" is opposing to " the beginning"

*all is just my opinion forgive me if it didn't making sense.

[heartreborn]

and for chaos and order

the first thing to say'd be that most ppl attitude toward the word
"chaos" is "evil" or "bad"

and that cause the misunderstanding that black sword 'd be chaos
so the bright shield can be order.

I dunno much about them either but for myself I'd like to say that "chaos"and"order" in suikoden 's in the different meaning.

IMO chaos 'd stating for revolutuon , changing , freedom
and bright shield rune 's symbolic the freedom , the will to survive as well

and for order which's stating for smth permanent , unchangeable , ruling
symbolic by sword , the absoluted power to rule , the god strengh with nothing to compare

as we saw in sui III the balanced world of dharma(order) 's the silent world with no color , only transquillity remain which 's symbolizing the permanent world with nothing to be change.

so there's no doubt , sword 's order and shield 's chaos

[Oppenheimer]

Thank you for your detailed posts heartreborn. You look to have put a lot of thought into them. However, just a note that please don't double post, use the edit button and preface any additions with "Edit:" if you wish to add to your message later. This just helps us save on bandwidth. Thank you.

[heartreborn]

i c
thx for your concern and forgive me for mydouble post ><

[darcsnyder]

so I wonder if yuber's against the rune of beginning , not just the bright shield by the way "the end" is opposing to " the beginning"

I think you just about had it right there.

I don't think Shield being Chaos and Sword being Order has anything to do with it.
I think Yuber hates the Bright Shield Rune because it's a part of the Rune of Beginning and to me the 'Beginning' would be bringing Order.

[Futch02]

But, if Yuber had an issue with, not just the bright shield rune, but the rune of beginning, wouldn't he have have an issue with Jowy and the black sword rune as well?

Off Topic: Somebody here mentioned that the Bright Shield and Black Sword aren't really true runes themselves, seeing as they're only each half of a true rune. Makes sense. My question is, does that mean that Riou and Jowy will age and die normally, or will they still be ageless seeing as, together, they possess a complete true rune?

[Angelis_Taleria]

Riou and Jowy will age and die due to natural causes unless they die some other way. Their runes do not grant agelessness.

[Futch02]

Riou and Jowy will age and die due to natural causes unless they die some other way. Their runes do not grant agelessness.

lol, thanks for answering this. I found the full explination in, surprisingly enough in a Jeane/Leknaat thread right after I asked this. Sorry for the double question. Heh, sometimes it's hard to figure out what's been asked and where to find it >.<

[demon eye]

Also, the Bright Shield would stand for Chaos and not Order. The Sword stands for Order. So, if Yuber hates the Bright Shield for that reason then Yuber would be on the side of Order which would seem drastically opposing to Yuber's character.

So, I think that Yuber has an issue with all True Runes and the creators flubbed with having Yuber specifically point out the Bright Shield. Yuber doesn't seem to particularily care about the end or beginning. Yuber seems to loather the bind that True Runes have on their bearer as you see Yuber cursing that fact at the end of Suikoden 3. Yuber feels like a prisoner.

So, maybe Yuber hates the fact that the Bright Shield symbolizes the mythical Shield which helped to start it all. I really can't say because I believe there are some holes there in YUber's statement to begin with.

[NChisholm]

Why get into the metiphysical properties of the runes... Yuber coulda been smashed by former bearers... thus disliking the painstick when seeing said painstick[rune] again

[Sharik]

I feel like im really late to all this but I had to give my own imput.

First of all I want to point out a very important piece of dialogue in suikoden involving information with Yuber. This comes from Geddoe during the battle at the cerimonial site in suikoden 3. Geddoe talks to Yuber before and after getting the true lightning rune back.

[quote]
Yuber: "You're late!"
Geddoe: "I guess I am."
Yuber: "How can you keep so cool? The world is about to end."
Geddoe: "I'll believe it when I see it. I was there 50 years ago, when the
threat was the same. You get stronger with time."
Yuber: "A reward for escaping death, I suppose."
Geddoe: "It's more like a curse. Knowledge can be a tedious thing."

Yuber extends his blades and raises one of them in preparation.

Yuber: "Then I will put an end to your misery. You, the successor to the 27
True Runes, will be granted your eternal slumber. Don't you feel honored?"
Geddoe draws his sword: "I feel tired."

After Yuber is defeated, he is seen kneeling on one knee, exhausted.

Yuber: "Ugh, will I never be free from my pain? Damn it, True Rune!"
Geddoe runs up to him: "Be gone, Devil! This world is a place meant for
humans!"[/quote]

You can find the script on gamefaqs. Very helpful. Here is a few things i want to pull outta this for everyone.

First of all. Geddoe has already fought Yuber before. He tells our mysterious friend that he grows stronger with time. There for this is nothing new to him.

My first guess is that Yuber is some kind of undead creature. But here we get a piece of dialogue that can be interpereted two different ways.
Yuber: "A reward for escaping death, I suppose."

Now initially this destroyed my theory about him being undead. Because this implies he hasnt died yet. At the same time though, maybe the writers aren't considering him dead until he is destroyed. So its just another way of him saying he hasnt been destroyed.

We'll return to that later. How about this interesting tidbit:
Geddoe: "It's more like a curse. Knowledge can be a tedious thing."
More like a curse? In other words escaping death and getting stronger is more like a curse. We've heard this before. However the key word here is [b]Knowledge[/b]. What I think has happened is Yuber has found some kind of way to change himself into this being he is. I dont think it has anything to do with a true rune. Furthermore if we look at the weblogs on suikosource that give us official true runes from the suikoden 3 guide we dont see the eightfold rune on there. Unless someone will be nice enough to point me to official info stating that this is a true rune...then that makes what im saying crap.

Anyhow, If your keeping up, thus far im thinking that yuber may have turned himself into an undead of somesort or some other kind of creature very similar.

Geddoe runs up to him: "Be gone, Devil! This world is a place meant for
humans!"

Be gone Devil...Demon...something like that. Now...what does all this have to do with the bright shield rune?

Now demons arent exactly undead but were talking Suikoden here, not Dungeons and Dragons. Also he summoned an undead dragon. Basically i think Yuber is very closely related to undead. The bright shield rune if i do remember correctly had a greater effect on undead. Not only that but it protected Riou against Neclord trying to use the Blue Moon Rune in suikoden 2.

To summerize. Even though Yuber may be in tune with chaos and Riou in tune with chaos. That does not mean they are on the same team. Seriously people this isnt good guys vs. bad guys. Yuber doesnt like the bright shield rune cause it hurts him. Most likely cause he is undead, or a demon if they fit into that category.

Then for the final theory. When presmerga shows up, its always around the night rune or neclord. Very closely related elements. I believe he shows up to these places looking for yuber because yuber has some relation with these undead or demon like creatures of the night.

And thank you for listenin

[demon eye]

First of all. Geddoe has already fought Yuber before. He tells our mysterious friend that he grows stronger with time. There for this is nothing new to him.

Not necessarily. It depends on how you read that quote. It seems to me that Geddoe was referring to the threat of the world ending before when the Flame Champion lost control of the True Fire Rune 50 years before. It is very possible that he is talking about going through an experience like that is what made him stronger. Of course, I'm not saying that he didn't fight Yuber before, but I'm just letting you know that the statement can be taken more than one way.

Geddoe: "It's more like a curse. Knowledge can be a tedious thing."
More like a curse? In other words escaping death and getting stronger is more like a curse. We've heard this before. However the key word here is Knowledge. What I think has happened is Yuber has found some kind of way to change himself into this being he is. I dont think it has anything to do with a true rune. Furthermore if we look at the weblogs on suikosource that give us official true runes from the suikoden 3 guide we dont see the eightfold rune on there. Unless someone will be nice enough to point me to official info stating that this is a true rune...then that makes what im saying crap.

First, I will point out that the Eightfold Rune is a True Rune and we have known it to be so since Suikoden 2. Please check this very site for that information. So, Yuber's being has a lot to do with a True Rune. So, I wouldn't say what you said was crap, but it is irrelevant when it comes to that.

Secondly, I think that Geddoe is talking about growing stronger through experience and knowledge is wisdom. Living a long life and being together with a being such as a True Rune will allow one to learn much about the world.

Basically i think Yuber is very closely related to undead. The bright shield rune if i do remember correctly had a greater effect on undead. Not only that but it protected Riou against Neclord trying to use the Blue Moon Rune in suikoden 2.

Monsters and undead originate from the World of Endless Nights..except for vampires who come from the Blue Moon Rune. Yuber is a none human/devil then Yuber more than likely comes from that world. Also, the Bright Shield Rune repelled the Blue Moon Rune because it is the rune of defense..it has nothing to do with the fact that they are undead. The Night Rune has the most effect on monsters and undead due to the fact that it is the lord of the night and allows for those creatures to exist.

[Sharik]

I agree with you on everything but im not convinced about the Eightfold thing. I know this site has it listed under the true rune list. But isnt that list created by suikosource? Not actually created by konami. There can be errors. Unless its info directly from a game or a konami source then its not so to me. For right now its just speculation unless someone can point me to the source of the info. Ill look into it myself though.

So basically im just askin where the info on this rune came from. At what point in suikoden did they talk about it? Then if they did talk about it, then it should have been included in the rune list from suikoden 3. Runes like the circle rune which have only been mentioned were also talked about but it was included.

[Moonbay]

Yuber: "Ugh, will I never be free from my pain? Damn it, True Rune!"

Sharik: In this passage, I believe Yuber is referring to his own True Rune.

So, wouldn't that be Konami's official information?

[Sharik]

HA! Im being owned left and right. Your definatly right. Thanks Moonbay