The Eightfold Rune

[demon eye]

And we can't be sure that Lucia wasn't talking about the Beast Rune. Remember that her leader wasn't Riou, but I guess you can consider that she was following Jowy, though. Also, the Night Rune, Beast Rune and Black Sword Runes were in close proximity to the people that bore the True Runes in each game. We don't know that Yuber is carrying the Hachifusa Rune. Yuber could have hid it, Yuber is ages older than Luc. I'm pretty sure Yuber can hide the presence of the Hachifusa Rune if Yuber wants to do so.

Recall that Windy hid the fact that she had the Gate Rune well into the first Suikoden as she only milked the power of the Conqueror Rune or Black Rune. We can't assume that all True Rune bearers will know the presence of another True Rune right away, therefore there is no need to mention it even if Yuber had the Hachifusa Rune throughout the game. Yuber's power alone without the True Rune's magic is quite sufficient. Besides, it appears that Yuber has no desire to use the Hachifusa Rune, at all.

Note how Yuber always complains about a cursed fate that the True Rune holds. I would believe that Yuber would avoid using the Hachifusa Rune if it wasn't necessary. Besides, the Hachifusa Rune is the most mysterious known True Rune. I doubt Konami would want to reveal its abilities just yet, therefore there's no need to mention it. At least they give us a slight look at the possible abilities of the Hachifusa Rune.

[Anamanaguchi]

Aila mentioned that she was talking about the enemy, and she obviously worked for highland.

[Gorudo]

Let's use colors as an example here.

The rune of the Beginning is say, purple. Let's make Bright Shield red and Black Sword blue. By themselves, they're not purple, you have to put them together to get purple

Let's take the Gate Rune and make it yellow, when you cut it in half, both halves are still yellow.

[demon eye]

I think you're missing the point of what I'm trying to say @Anamanaguchi. Just because the other True Runes were mentioned in the past games doesn't mean they will follow the trend for all games. Sasarai's True Earth Rune was not mentioned in Suikoden 2, eventhough we all pretty much assume he used it to deflect Luc's Wind magic. I'm just stating that Yuber could very well have the Hachifusa Rune sealed in a way it can't be detected by even Luc. It is even possible that Harmonia doesn't even know about the Hachifusa Rune. We only know about it due to a minor blurb about it in a Suikoden publication. The Hachifusa Rune is meant to be a mystery.

Also, I don't recall Lucia specifying who she was talking about when she mentioned a True Rune bearer. Maybe Aila clarified it, but nevertheless, the Bright Shield and Black Sword aren't True Runes so I just thought she was referring to the Beast Rune because she was present at the last battle at the Highland Capital and surely learned about the Beast Rune's attempted release. Either way,Yuber isn't about to shed any information on the Hachifusa Rune and Luc obviously couldn't detect it or didn't care to do so.

[Anamanaguchi]

It's only obvi, who she (Lucia) was talking about come on now, common sense.

[demon eye]

I choose to not apply common sense to a fictional game. It is obvious that she was talking about Riou or Jowy. I'm just saying it was an odd statement due tot he fact that the Bright Shield and Black Sword Runes are not True Runes. It would be more logical to discuss the Beast Rune except for the fact that the Beast Rune has no bearer.

Besides that, I wonder when Lucia learned Wyatt's secret. I assume she knew about his past as she allowed for him to hide out in her village. But, yes you are correct that she is obviously talking about Riou or Jowy.I never tried to dispute that fact, just arguing that the Bright Shield and Black Sword are not True Runes so it's weird for her to refer to either of them as True Rune bearers. I guess it shows the general ignorance of the public as to the nature of True Runes.

[Jowy Atreides]

The fault could also be placed on the translators, since even Leknaat and the in-game description of the Black Sword and Bright Shield Runes is incorrect. Jowy also mistakenly names the Black Sword Rune a True Rune, when he should know better.

[YuberClone]

Chaos and order are opposing forces. In the scientific community chaos is called entropy. without these forces we would not exist. Evolution would not have happened without chaos. Change is just the process of order cycling through chaos and back to order. the Yin-yang is representitive of this balance. the two halves eating eachothers tail, is order repairing the damage wrought by chaos, while chaos is busy tearing down the structures of order.

i think it would be very cool if Yuber and Pesmerga represented these forces. Perhaps they will both annihilate if one ever defeats the other? There is plenty of supporting evidence that they do correspond with these forces too. Yuber always aligns with the aggressor and Pesmerga always aligns with the defender. (that is when they are both present). Order does follow chaos, Pesmerga is always following Yuber.

I've heard rumors but i can't remember where, that Yuber was a Demon from another plane of existence and Pesmerga was simply a shadow. this would explain why Richmond reported Pesmerga making no sound when he moved.

hopefully suikoden 5 will offers answers.

[demon eye]

Just a little tidbit, Pesmerga never really 'aligned' with the protagonist if you will. Pesmerga used the protagonist in order to get closer to Yuber. It was just a means to an end. I would also see Pesmerga aligning with the aggressor, as well. The hereos of each game aggressively attack the oppressive forces that they face-off against. Besides, I would consider Pesmerga very aggressive in pursuit of Yuber.

Yuber seems to just be passive and unaffected by Pesmerga unless they have direct contact. Yuber seems to be almost child-like in the endeavors that Yuber pursues. Yuber seems to be very passive, as well. Yuber only waits to be summoned and told what to do and appears to only have enjoyment when things go 'boom'. I just don't know what to think of Yuber just yet. Yuber surely doesn't seem to be in control where Pesmerga seems to live freely except for constantly pursuing Yuber.

And I don't know if I'd go with Order following Chaos. It's kind of hard to distinguish which aspect comes first since they exist simultaneously in realit. We would not know Chaos without Order and vice-versa. Also, most creation stories start in a state of perpetual nothingness where all is still or orderly, then comes the trauma that spurns creation. So, that may mean Order comes before Chaos, but we just can't be sure.

[YuberClone]

unfortunately, that is a Chicken and the egg kind of dilemma.
However, you look at the universe. the chaos of the big bang came before the order of galaxies and solar systems forming

[demon eye]

That depends on what you consider Order. Once the solar system was created from the Big Bang, as some believe, there has never been true Order throughout the world. The only true point of Order would be in the stillness before Creation. That's when everything was truly one and under one rule. The absence of change seems to be the Order that Suikoden is pointing towards.

So, once the universe was created there was no true Order since things have always been changing since that point. So, I don't see how Chaos could come first. Order had to persist as the foundation before the movement towards the creative universe. Therefore, the Big Bang had to come from something and that something we don't know, but it was unchanging.

[Wraith]

Chaos and Order cannot come seperatly. they have to be intertwined(for lack of better word)without chaos there is no order and without order there is no chaos. also if they where to come seperatly they would not be called order caus you wouldn't know what chaos was like thus making complete stagnation ordernary.Its like saying what the difference is between a dream and " realilty" I mean I could be in a coma right now and I'm dreaming al of you.

[Jowy Atreides]

After seeing the dimension where Luc transports Hugo at the end of Suikoden Three, I think we can safely assume that one can exist without the other. Leknaat's comments during the Fog Ship Quest also hint at this, if only a little.