Marley Family Theory

Hypotheses for, and analyses of, the various Suikoden characters.
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Id
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Post by Id »

Well he did, and then he killed neclord, so thats over.
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Agremsep
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Post by Agremsep »

Id wrote:Yes the Marley's hunt Neclord for revenge, but its not impossible that they would hunt vampires in general, because now they have all the techniques.
Nope. Kahn is the Head of the Marley family and he is the only one with this vampire slaying technique. And considering the ending of Suikoden 2 depicts that he had became a minelogist, it means there are no more vampire huntings other than Neclord.

And now that Sierra got the Blue Moon rune back, I reckon she can take control the other vampires from going into a blood sucking frenzy. That means, there is no chance Kahn would run to a random blood sucking vampire in his days as minelogist, thus, his vampire slaying techniques are of no further use. And he already has said it that it's all for Neclord alone.

Otherwise, he would fight Sierra the moment they met each other. It is just more of collecting the facts and deriving it's meaning. Simple right?
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Id
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Post by Id »

Kahn is a member of the Marley family who has been hunting vampires for centuries. The Marley family used to govern an area in Harmonia, but centuries ago, vampires started to turn people in the Marley domain into zombies. Since then, the Marley family have been trying to develop ways to destroy vampires. Kahn's grandfather was the first to fight with Neclord, and he was killed. From Suikosource
So there could be other cousins or lines of the family hunting vampires, right?
And since all of you take whats written on this sight as law, there you go,.
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Post by Jowy Atreides »

The word "vampires" should be changed to "vampire." Then, the word "vampire" should be changed to "Neclord." SARS wrote that entry and then later on at this site said that the only vampire the Marleys have/had been hunting was Neclord.
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Id
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Post by Id »

So what I'm reading on this site is wrong? Incorrect period? Okay.
So Suikoden Assumptions and Rumours Shelter
is where the unquestionable info comes from. Because rumours and assumptions are fact. I see.
So I can't believe anything I read on this site.

But even then, in the description of Neclord at SARS, it says that neclord killed Kahns father and grandfather, but then in the description of Kahn Marley, it says Neclord killed Kahns father and grandfathers
Which am I too believe there?
I guess I should abandon the arguement becuae everyone is using such solid evidence, from the authority on Suikoden. okay.
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Red Killey
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Post by Red Killey »

Okay, I'll try to give sensible reason to both sides to prevent more heated/sarcastic debate.

The facts on Kahn:
1. He hunted Neclord.
2. He became a mineralogist after Dunan Unification War.
3. He did not try to kill Sierra.

From that information, we are still unsure of whether Kahn actually hunted other vampires or not (don't point me to Sierra's case just yet, keep on reading). Even SARSadmin said that Kahn might have been hunting other vampires (so Jowy Atreides, calm down, even SARSadmin wasn't sure), it's just that we don't know. We only know that Neclord was his main target. And to reach Neclord, I believe it's sensible to say that Kahn hunted (or even experimented his techniques on) other vampires. Hence, Kahn was indeed a vampire hunter.

Now to why Kahn didn't try to kill Sierra. I believe that Kahn's grudge was personal, and he only hunted bad vampires. And it's fairly obvious that Sierra wasn't a bad vampire who destroy villages for fun. Hence, Kahn had no reason to try to kill her. Not to mention that Sierra's help was actually needed by him to kill Neclord. I believe that Kahn was a man to with sensible mind, and he wouldn't feel right to try to kill the vampire who had helped him fulfill his revenge.

Onto the mineralogist part. It is a fact that he abandoned the whole vampire thingy after he killed Neclord. But that didn't prove anything on his past, whether he had killed other vampires or not. So while it's quite a fact that Neclord was his main target (due to the personal issues), it was never really established whether he was his only target or not. Me personally, I think he was out there to hunt Neclord while killing other bad vampires on his way to Neclord.
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Post by demon eye »

It's not necessary that Kahn hunted vampires to test out techniques of "vampire destruction". If I recall correctly, there was a man who destroyed a vampire before the Marleys were even mentioned according to Suikoden History. Therefore, it's very possible that there are other groups/families that specialize in vampire hunting besides the Marley family and it's also possible that these families existed before the Marley family and may even have more knowledge than the Marley family.

Kahn and the Marley family could have learned their vampire hunting techniques from these other families aside from practicing them on vampires themselves. Also, I believe that Kahn called Neclord a special case. Kahn said his family had devised a special way of destroying Neclord, not vampires if I recall correctly, therefore it would make sense to say that their methods of vampire hunting is solely based on stopping Neclord.

With that said, it is still likely that the Marley family hunted other vampires. I think it would be rather hard to ignore stories about people getting their blood sucked and turning into zombies and such without investigating that situation. I mean, the Marley family has hunted Neclord for years, they had to have come across other vampires in their long history and I doubt they would ignore the chance to slay a vampire and let what happened to their village occur to other innocent victims. Also, it's hard to become well-known as a vampire hunter family if you don't hunt vampires, so I don't think they would just limit their search to only one vampire. But, we cannot associate the whole families' activities to just one member. Kahn clearly only wanted to destroy Neclord.

As for Sierra, it is obvious that Kahn needed her to kill Neclord. They had similar goals and she wasn't a threat, therefore Kahn had no reason to make an enemy of her. Recall, that Sierra is something similar to a vampire hunter, as well. She is also trying to stop her brethren who have lost their way. Therefore, she would be Kahn and the Marley family's ally not an enemy. Hence, Kahn did not want to kill her.

As for Kahn, it is likely that he killed other vampires, but he probably did it because he got caught in a situation where he thought Neclord was involved and it happened to be other vampires. I don't think Kahn would purposefully go out and simply hunt any other vampire except for Neclord.

Kahn seemed too intent on his desire to kill Neclord to be doing something so daunting as hunting other vampires. He just didn't seem as devoted to killing all vampires, as he was solely devoted to destroying Neclord. But, that's just my take on Kahn. I just don't see him as the ideal vampire hunter we would imagine that goes out to slay all vampires, such as Blade and Van Hellsing. He seems to be soley out for revenge and that's why he abandons the business of killing vampires in order to become a mineralogist after Neclord's demise.
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Post by Jowy Atreides »

Red Killey wrote:(so Jowy Atreides, calm down, even SARSadmin wasn't sure)
Of course he's not sure. If he was sure (as in it's a fact), we wouldn't even be having this debate. I just said he agreed with me. And some people might think (from my sporadic posting and tone) that I'm angry but I'm really not. I'm just saying that Kahn's entry is slightly off. Not all information at Suikox/Suikosource is 100% correct. (As can be seen with the slight change in Yuber's entry.)

Anyways, onto the completely off-topic debate. Think of Kahn's motive for hunting Neclord. Neclord destroyed the Marley's land. Marleys hunt down Neclord, learning various techniques for sealing Neclord's various magics. His motive doesn't apply to other vampires. The Marleys would've never hunted Neclord if he'd never bothered them. And they're plenty of other vampires that have bothered mankind but there's absolutely no mention of any Marleys at all.

Aegia - no mention of a Marley.
Rean - no Marleys there.
The vampires that took away Edge's sister - not a single Marley in sight.

I don't think that the Marleys went out of their way to hunt down vampires but if there was a vampire standing right in-between them and Neclord I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate to kill them. Ohterwise, I personally don't think so.
Last edited by Jowy Atreides on Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Red Killey
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Post by Red Killey »

I actually think that it's more plausible that the Marley family was vampire hunters, and they only focused their attention on Neclord once Kahn's grandfather was killed by him. Here are my supporting ideas:

1. Info from Konami mentioned that the people in Marley domain were turned into zombies by vampires. This could literally mean "more than 1 vampire" (hence, automatically disprove the Marley family only targeting Neclord) or it simply referred to an unknown/un-named vampire (hence, the vampire was not Neclord). Had the vampire in question was Neclord, I would've expected Konami to say it out loud that it was Neclord. There was no need to say "vampire" when they specifically referred to Neclord. So with that said, I believe that the vampire in question was not Neclord.

2. The whole thing in Marley domain happened centuries ago, yet it was mentioned specifically that Kahn's grandfather was the first who fought Neclord. At most, that would happen one century before Kahn's appearance, and for sure that wouldn't happen centuries before. So who did the Marley prior to Kahn's grandfather fight? The most plausible answer is that they fought other vampires. Again, pointing to the solution that Marley family were in fact (bad) vampire hunters, not Neclord hunters.

If my theory was indeed correct, then the chronological order of things that happened would be something like:
1. Marley domain was attacked by vampires (centuries ago).
2. Marley family became vampire hunters to defend themselves. -> Marley family wanted to kill (bad) vampires.
3. They hunted vampires for X period of time (since we have no idea how many centuries before that happened). -> Still killing (bad) vampires.
4. Kahn's grandfather met Neclord, fought, and got killed. -> Kahn's father wanted revenge.
5. Kahn's father fought against Neclord, and got killed. -> Kahn wanted revenge.
6. Kahn killed Neclord. -> Revenge fulfilled.

Again, if my theory was correct, that would explain on how the objective of the family changed from "bad vampires" into "Neclord" due to what happened on #4. Had Neclord been the main objective of the Marley family, that totally didn't explain on what they did up to #4.

So in conclusion, I do believe that the Marley family was indeed vampire hunters.
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Post by Agremsep »

From Killey's post, I think we can agree that the Marley's family were indeed regular vampire hunters until they met up with Neclord and Kahn's grandfather got killed, followed by his father.

Thus, Kahn switched the agenda into killing Neclord SOLELY as it became a life-long obssession of revenge. So during this period of hunting Neclord, Kahn did not bother much about other vampires and finally settled as a minelogist when he killed Neclord.

The flowchart would be :

Marley family became vampire hunters when their land were attacked --> Down the line, they met up Neclord --> Grandpa and daddy got killed --> Kahn set on a crusade to hunt Neclord --> Neclord dies --> Kahn retires into a Minelogist.
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Post by JanusThePaladin »

Hasn't anybody here ever heard of racism? Maybe some of you didn't think of comparing this to racism, but it surely fits. Alot of times, a senseless, mindless need for revenge against an entire race/group can develop because of the actions of one member. (I.e.:the wave of racism that hit the US after 9/11). Quite possibly, if the Marley's were not already hunting Neclord prior to the death of Grandpa Marley, this sort of revenge/racism scenario could have occured.
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Id
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Post by Id »

Even if Kahn became a mineoligist after Suikoden 2, I was syaing earlier that its not impossible that other marley's were hunting vampires.
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Agremsep
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Post by Agremsep »

Id wrote:Even if Kahn became a mineoligist after Suikoden 2, I was syaing earlier that its not impossible that other marley's were hunting vampires.
Maybe, could be possible. It would be wonderful actually, because we might see other members of the Marley family in the future games.
But then again, I heard during the time Kahn retired, he was the head of the Marley family and holds all the vampire hunting arts, so when he retired, it ends with him. Or maybe I was wrong?
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Id
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Post by Id »

Well, I believed, from what I saw in the game, and from what I read here, which has now been said to be innaccurate, that The Marley's were a vampire hunting family, and new everything about hunting vampires but only Kahn had the Neclord sealing technique.
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Agremsep
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Post by Agremsep »

I am currently re-playing Suikoden 2 again (read my signature :P ) and I just finished the part where I fought the Abomination (meeting Kahn obviosly). Well, under first impressions, Kahn said " My family has hunted vampires for generations."

From there, one can say that there are other members of the Marley family that hunt vampires. BUT we do not know whether this "family" he is referring to is a small one, which just included maybe, his grandpa, his dad and him.
Therefore, we will never know.

PS : =.=" this thread is getting really off-topic. Perhaps we should discuss this in a Marley family thread or something.
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