1. you can only remove a true rune (against someone whos unwilling) if you overpower them, or you have weaken them.. It shows in the game isn't it?
2. from 1, Sasarai lost his rune because Luc has practically weaken him by telling them of their true nature, Luc shows the components of a human body, their human body, Sasarai pukes! shown in the game
3. The Containers are from Harmonia, i think Hikusaak created it, its just a container for True Runes.. Luc mentions this.. during battle with geddoe in Mt.Senai
4. Luc got Geddoe's Lightning rune by upsetting the balance with the True Earth and True Wind Rune, and forcefully extracting it from Geddoe..
The same for Chris and Hugo as well..
Luc mentions this on the game, he learned this technique from harmonia.. the only thing the Syndars have anything to do with all this is with the destruction of the rune.. which is the Luc's planning to do in the ceremonial site
in s3 the trinity system really messed things up when it came to this factor so i'll pass it up
in Suikoden 3, Sana explains that the Flame Champion was able to predict the three would appear to succeed him as the True Fire Rune holder but that one's own will would determine who takes it. that's where "will" acts in that game, as well as Luc's attempt to defy fate.
Suikoden V shows another instance of controlling or using a true rune's powers without actually bearing the rune - Marscal is able to do this rather successfully after his scholars study the information from the Sun Ruins.
Uh..I'm not sure what you just said destiny. So I cant respond
However, KFCrispy, I'm wondering if you know anything about what they discovered about the rune. It seems a large portion of the Godwin's plot was to learn how to bear the True Rune. With the exception of IV, you see how the True Rune is reincarnated into a living beast, but in V, they don't really show HOW they achieved that status. They go from not being able to touch the rune, to being able to carry it to the mountains. Do you know, or know of a place to send me, what they found out about the sun rune?
"We did not choose to be the guardians at the gate, but there is no one else"
what do you mean "not being able to touch the rune"? the Sun, Dawn, and Twilight like resting on their dedicated statue busts... they just carried the bust around. the Dawn Rune's entire bust was stolen as well, i believe.
they tried to attach the rune to someone with Jeane's help, but using the information they got from the Sun Ruins, they learned how to call some of its powers without having to bear it. that's the explanation..
Pollensalta wrote:Maybe not Barbarosa. He was never really "evil", he was just defending his empire. But you never got to fight Windy, which I thought was odd, seeing as she was supposed to be the main villain.
Leknaat and Windy together as final bosses? Awesome idea.
No, not awesome.
First of all, as far as we know, Windy [and Barborosa] are dead.
Second of all, NO!! Leknaat gives you help in every game, just not as much in III, because it's emotionally rough for her to lead the 108 stars of destiny against Luc. But aside from that, how could anyone purpose that she will be the final boss? That's like saying Riou and Jowy will be the final bosses. It just can't happen, and if it did, the Tenkai would never even be able to beat the Gate Rune sisters anyway.
"Even if I close my eyes, the world will not dissapear."
Did Windy "die" while still bearing the rune? If, so couldn't she just summoned a monster while falling to stop her? And, also I never thought of the idea of Leknaat being a "bad guy." Though, it would be fun. I mean maybe she is just trying to protect the runes till she can control them all and strike back at the gods like Luc tried? And maybe Luc was suppose to be part of this plan but didn't want to wait. Of course I don't belive that but I like traitor theories.
Those who know much suffer much. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Why can't you be more sincere and earnest?! Like me!
Kyle: Yeah, how's that working out for you again?
Tenko5 wrote:Did Windy "die" while still bearing the rune? If, so couldn't she just summoned a monster while falling to stop her? And, also I never thought of the idea of Leknaat being a "bad guy." Though, it would be fun. I mean maybe she is just trying to protect the runes till she can control them all and strike back at the gods like Luc tried? And maybe Luc was suppose to be part of this plan but didn't want to wait. Of course I don't belive that but I like traitor theories.
Good, Leknaat isn't a "bad guy", never has been, never will be, and never showed any signs of being so. Anyway, if Windy really died, then Leknaat should have the other half of the gaterune, which means she can bring another dead person back to life, like the way she did with Gremio.
"Even if I close my eyes, the world will not dissapear."
Plus, with windy still missing, it gives konami an old bad guy to bring back in a future suikoden.(along with Yuber, Pesmerga, Barbarosa and anyone else im forgetting)
Black knight overlord wrote:Plus, with windy still missing, it gives konami an old bad guy to bring back in a future suikoden.(along with Yuber, Pesmerga, Barbarosa and anyone else im forgetting)
But, Pesmerga is not evil, he symbolizes good and Yuber symbolizes evil. But Konami probably will bring back some old bad guys. That would be cool, right?
"Even if I close my eyes, the world will not dissapear."
Black knight overlord wrote:Plus, with windy still missing, it gives konami an old bad guy to bring back in a future suikoden.(along with Yuber, Pesmerga, Barbarosa and anyone else im forgetting)
But, Pesmerga is not evil, he symbolizes good and Yuber symbolizes evil. But Konami probably will bring back some old bad guys. That would be cool, right?
you need to realize that Konami avoids the black and white "good" and "evil" concepts. Yuber supports CHAOS, which is neither evil nor good. Chaos allows for democratic societies; without chaos, Luc's vision of a stagnant world would occur. Too much of anything is not good.
Somehow....i can never see black knights has being good guys, they must have come from the same place to both be black knights(my guess is the World of Emptiness, and anything that comes from there cant represent good , especially since monsters come form there too).
If you cant see a black knight as a good guy, you have obviously never read Micheal Moorecock.
I would like to enter the fact that Leknaat is known as the Executor of Balance.
BALANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Balance is neither good nor evil, balance in equality. Again I'll refer to Moorecock. In Moorecocks stories of the multiverse, the heroes represent opposing sides of Law and Chaos, which is a prevalent theme in the Suikoden world, along with Luc's vision of a stagnant world, where law (or order if you prefer) is in complete control. It seems to me that Leknaat, and the heroes of the Suikoden universe serve the same purpose as the heroes of Moorecock's multiverse, they uphold BALANCE. In a world without them either Law or Chaos would reign supreme, though in most the stories it seems to be a battle against Chaos, with which Yuber is obviously aligned.
The Scarlet Moon empire was crumbling into a world of disarray and disorder and it was your job to bring back true law.
The highland army was attempting to release the beast rune upon the world and bring utter chaos and destruction.
Luc was admittedly battling against an overdose of Order and Law.
However, in S4 and 5 it is different. The Kooluks are attempting to extend their control and their power, their rule, over a Chaotic land, where all the different areas are seperated by infighting, and change is EVERYWHERE. In S4 you fight to uphold chaos against law.
In s5 the Godwins are doing as they see as right, bringing a new law, a controlling, powerful law, to control the Falena Queendom. You fight against that, to uphold the idea that others should be able to control their own actions. Obviously Order vs Chaos.
Leknaat obviously, atleast to me, helps to maintain the balance, a constant battle between Law and Chaos, as to keep the world from going to the extreme of either, as extreme order is stagnation, and extreme chaos is nothingness.
As for the Guide, simply put, the removal of a very powerful object that helps symbolize the battle of order and chaos would be excessively detrimental to the balance. Thus her intervention.
It seems to me that it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are great powers in the Suikoden universe that do not revolve around the use of a True Rune. Isnt that what Crowley dedicated his entire life and studies to? Wasnt a battle between Crowley and Mazus what caused large scale destruction? I dont see it as anything near unlikely that Leknaat, and Luc for that matter, have powers not even slightly connected to their Runes. With this in mind, Luc removing a true rune is possible to do WITHOUT a true rune. I see the True runes, when Luc used them, as no more than large power conducters he could use to help provide the power neccessary to remove the runes. I dont think he needed them to remove them, just that the power helped.
Pollensalta wrote:Maybe not Barbarosa. He was never really "evil", he was just defending his empire. But you never got to fight Windy, which I thought was odd, seeing as she was supposed to be the main villain.
Leknaat and Windy together as final bosses? Awesome idea.
No, not awesome.
First of all, as far as we know, Windy [and Barborosa] are dead.
Second of all, NO!! Leknaat gives you help in every game, just not as much in III, because it's emotionally rough for her to lead the 108 stars of destiny against Luc. But aside from that, how could anyone purpose that she will be the final boss? That's like saying Riou and Jowy will be the final bosses. It just can't happen, and if it did, the Tenkai would never even be able to beat the Gate Rune sisters anyway.
I was thinking. . maybe Windy will be. . since. .you know, she isn't dead.
"I wasn't getting rid of you. I want you to do whatever you want to do with me. I know that sounded dirty, and dirty things count, but I didn't mean the dirty things. You and me can hang whenever, wherever."
-Lorelai Gilmore
How do we know that Windy would be a bad guy in the final suiko along with Leknaat?......I was thinking she might actually be on your side.....if they decide she's alive.
shown in the game
Of course I don't belive that but I like traitor theories.
, especially since monsters come form there too).
