Leknaat-The unseeing eye that sees all

[Vextor]

That comment by Sasarai was a mistranslation. He said, "Despite my looks, I am after all more than 30 years old."

[Black Fang]

hey hey wait a minute there vampire's also die's

Vampires are already dead,......they vanish if they are pierced by a stake, hit by sunlight or through lack of fresh blood (even though some myths make it so that they can make by just at the cost of their powers).

Neclord he does aged before he had stolen the moon rune he was still a teen or something that's what it is indicated there or something...like that.....

"Something....like that", makes it sound that you're really unsure of yourself. Where exactlly does it "indicate" that he ages as a vampire?

the vampires at the Blue moon village didn't die back there because the Moonrune gives then kinda magic powers not to suck blood

Correction; the vampires at Blue Moon Village took their own lives(or deaths) as to not feel like monsters and have to exist of the blood of humans (something they all once were). The Moon Rune quenched that thirst giving them all their abilities without sucking blood like you said, but it didn't grant them immortality and it wasn't their source of existance (maybe it was something the Blue Moon Rune did, but vampires are already immortal in the first place, I mean c'mon, they are DEAD).

another Proof that vampire's die is because Richmond said in his investigations that all Vampires Do also DIE except for sierra thou he doesn't know the reason behind sierra's Immortality....

Like I said before vampires vanish without the Blue Moon Rune only if they choose not to suck blood. Majority of them did so because they wanted to, but Richmond's comments are most likely a mistake either on Konami's part or the translators, as it clashes heavily with everything Viktor, Khan and Sierra mention. On a side note, Richmond never said that he doesn't understand the reason behind Sierra's immortality. Read the secrets again.

[Jowy Atreides]

Vampires are more or less just another race made from sucking blood, they aren't really dead as you say. They may be "dead" in terms of not being really active or something but since they walk around and do things I think it's prety easy to say that they are not dead. Dead means dead, not something that was "alive" as a human and is now "dead" as a vampire. All they had was a race change, not a "alive" into "dead" change.

[Harukaze]

I think the confusion here, and hopefully this will end the digression and return the thread to its original topic, is in that Vampires in the classical sense are not like Vampires of Suikoden. Vampires in the classical sense -are- dead, or perhaps if you like the term, -undead.- They continue to exist while their bodies are in a necrotic state and thus by all medical definitions are dead. This is not so in Suikoden; at least, this might not be so - we really have to throw out all our inner stereotypes regarding vampires when considering the vampires of this world, because the mythologies of our world are not the mythologies of the Suikoden world.

So... about them eyes of Leknaat. Bet they sure are pretty. Or something. Where -were- we in the discussion anyway?

[Black Fang]

Vampires are more or less just another race made from sucking blood, they aren't really dead as you say. They may be "dead" in terms of not being really active or something but since they walk around and do things I think it's prety easy to say that they are not dead. Dead means dead, not something that was "alive" as a human and is now "dead" as a vampire. All they had was a race change, not a "alive" into "dead" change.

Hence the term "undead"!!!

This is not so in Suikoden; at least, this might not be so - we really have to throw out all our inner stereotypes regarding vampires when considering the vampires of this world, because the mythologies of our world are not the mythologies of the Suikoden world.

True to an extent. Vampires after all are BASED on the mythology of our world, even though Konami tweaked them a bit.

So... about them eyes of Leknaat. Bet they sure are pretty. Or something. Where -were- we in the discussion anyway?

Can you actually ever see her eyes? Shes never opened them as far as I remember (makes sense being blind and all), but I always thought she'd have these blue/greenish eyes.

I think for the most part the question got answered, I am still currious as to what happens with Windy and her Rune (you'd think Leknaat would be able to sense her if she was alive).

[flame_champ]

I think Windy is still alive.Leeknat would probably know if Windy is dead and would have the true gate rune. It might work like the black sword rune and the bright shield rune, if one bearer dies, the half goes to the one that still alive. But I know that the bright shield rune and the black sword rune are not really rune halves, so halves might act different and not come to each other...
This is so pointless I'm contradicting myself.Xb

[Harukaze]

What I don't like is that Konami changed its mind regarding the status of the Gate Rune. Once they said it was whole, they should have left it that way.

[Jowy Atreides]

Well, it was probably done so that the plot of Suikoden Three could even happen.

Leknaat + Full Gate Rune = Having enough power to stop Luc in the first place, thus no S3.

But, on the other hand,

Leknaat + Half Gate Rune = Not having enough power to stop Luc in the first place, thus the plot of S3 happens, and no problems.

[demon eye]

That's not necessarily true. True Runes are equivalent in power. Therefore, even if Leknaat had both sides of the Gate Rune it is not certain that she would have been able to stop Luc based on the fact that she had a full Gate Rune. Luc could have still been able to oppose her. Besides, Leknaat is a very crafty magician. I believe she had other methods of stopping Luc if she really wanted to do so. Remember that Leknaat is the guardian of fate, she knew what Luc was fated to do and she knew she could not stop him even if she had the power to do so.

[Harukaze]

I agree with Demon Eye on this. I think True Rune or no, she could have stopped him if she tried. She put up a resistance at all, I think, in order to take a stab at changing his mind; if she -forced- him to change his path, it could have been even more disasterous, since he would have been extremely resentful on top of his other feelings.

[Vextor]

For example, she could have teleported all over the world and warned people of Luc's plot and actively aid Hugo/Chris/Geddoe to sop Luc. However, she did none of this.

[demon eye]

Exactly! Fate and Destiny is like an interwoven thread. Meaning, there are many paths, but they all lead to one destination. Leknaat knew that Luc had his role to play in history and in the course of Fate. Her position as guardian of Fate is to make sure that each person takes their appropriate path so that the wheel of Fate moves smoothily and unhindered. Therefore, I wouldn't get the notion that Leknaat is on a particular side. She is on the side of Fate, or at least a Fate that she believes to be best. She might have cared for Luc deeply, but she knew he had his role and the events that he would cause to unfold were necessary for the proper course of Fate.

[Vextor]

Leknaat is not on the side of fate. She is the Keeper of Balance, and tries to do whatever she can to make sure Chaos and Order is balanced in the world. That is why she took an active role in ensuring that Chaos (shield) won against Order (sword) in Suikoden 2. She is anything BUT interested in letting fate take its natural course, because that would simply lead to the dominance of either Chaos or Order. In Suikoden 3, Luc says that he saw the world come to stagnation from oversaturated Dharma (order). Leknaat would have to do whatever possible to make sure that doesn't happen.

Leknaat is also a victim if Hikusaak's attempt to gather all True Runes. Hikusaak is the holder of the Circle Rune, which represents Order and Stagnation. Thus, she has a vested interest in making sure Hikusaak doesn't realise his abmitions.

Of course, if Chaos starts to gain an upper hand, perhaps Leknaat will support the other side.

Also, although Leknaat can grasp the "general flow" of fate, she says that she can never tell what would actually happen. She also insists that man can change fate--that with huge effort, a person can turn the wheels of fate with their own hands. That is the case when Riou and Jowy break the curse of their runes.

[demon eye]

I believe you are correct SARSadmin, but I'm sort of indifferent about your view on why she took an active role with the Bright Shield against the Black Sword. I don't disagree that she is the Keeper of Balance as she states that she is, but I believe that she is also the Keeper of Fate. I believe Leknaat just helped Riou do what was needed to be done in order to guide him onto a set course which she saw as the best pattern for the balance of the Suikoverse and hence the proper fate she has envisioned for the Suikoverse, as well. I believe Leknaat had a vision that Riou had an important task that would ensure that the wheels of fate turned correctly and that was necessary for him to bear the Bright Shield Rune. Fate and Balance are intertwined deeply with each other in the overall theme of Suikoden and both terms seem to overlap. I believe that Leknaat chooses individuals and helps them to follow their path that was destined to them through fate, this helps to keep the balance between Chaos and Order. Therefore, I believe she has a great interest in the natural course of fate. I think that she only involves herself in a crisis when she sees that the proper course of fate is being interfered with by some 'outside force'. The quote: "Is fate changeable?" comes to my mind while I argue this point. The vision that the True Wind Rune showed Luc was a possible path destined to the world through Fate, correct? Leknaat chose not to interfere with Luc because she knew that proper course of Fate would be followed no matter if she got involved or not..at least that is what I believe. Leknaat needed to allow the events in Suikoden 3 to unfold in order for the proper course of Fate to be followed and hence for balance to be kept between Order and Chaos as well. Basically, I think in the Suikoverse, Fate and Balance go hand in hand and Leknaat has a vested interest in both.

[Vextor]

Nope, they don't as withe the natural course of fate, order will win over chaos and the world will be mired in total stagnation. Leknaat's goal is to avoid that fate.