Gin from S2 is Gen from S1?

Hypotheses for, and analyses of, the various Suikoden characters.
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Sasarai10
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Gin from S2 is Gen from S1?

Postby Sasarai10 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:04 am

In the beggining of the game,there is one guy named Gin (with no avatar,but his name is highlighted) who is preventing you,entering in Radat,along with a couple of others. There is also another guy named Gin who appears later,but dressed differently,who is the one you ask to close the sluice gate,in order to find the coin that Shu tossed in the river,but this guy's name is not highlighted.

Well anyway,i wonder if the Gin in the begining (with his name being highlighted) is the same Gen from S1,but with a mispelling. What's the point of being highlighted,if he wasn't someone important,like Lotte or Sarah who appear in Gregminster?

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Celes
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Re: Gin from S2 is Gen from S1?

Postby Celes » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:53 pm

Well, this site actually lists both guys as different characters:
http://www.suikosource.com/chars/list/?char_id=585
http://www.suikosource.com/chars/list/?char_id=595

I checked the gate scene and "Gin" does indeed looks like Gen, especially with the white headband thing. But I couldn't find any scene with him at the beginning. Do you have a screen or something?

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Re: Gin from S2 is Gen from S1?

Postby Sasarai10 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:27 pm

Celes wrote:Well, this site actually lists both guys as different characters:
http://www.suikosource.com/chars/list/?char_id=585
http://www.suikosource.com/chars/list/?char_id=595

Ich checked the gate scene and "Gin" does indeed looks like Gen, especially with the white headband thing. But I couldn't find any scene with him at the beginning. Do you have a screen or something?



No,there are 2 Gins in S2. The one that you mentioned,and the other one that appears in the beggining of the game,when Radat is inaccesible,and the entrance is blocked by a couple of sailors. I was referring to the other one,whose name is highlighted. And i was wondering why he has his name highlighted,if he isn't someone important?

Nope i don't have any screen,but you can see him early in the game,as soon as you can enter Radat by the Mercenary Fort area

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Celes
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Re: Gin from S2 is Gen from S1?

Postby Celes » Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:04 pm

So, we have the following options:

  • Both Gins happen to be Gen. So "Gin at the beginning" is the same as "Gin at the coin scene" and the color change was unintentional/unnoticed. Furthermore they forget to set the name flag for a highlighted character at this point.
  • "Gin at the beginning" is Gen, while the character at the coins scene is called "Gin" in the dialouges by mistake.
  • Gin is not Gen. The name has some meaning for a fisherman ...

If Gin is Gen, the different vowel is most likely another translation issue.

It has a lot to comment that Gin is Gen. Gen is nowhere to been seen past Suikoden 1. The ending says he returns to Teien, where he continues to build ships. But we have learned that not all lines are fulfilled exactly. Furthermore 3 years have passed, so he may has traveled to Radat at a later time. Additionally Gin looks a lot like Gen. What are the odds.

Personally, I like to believe alternative 1 to be true.

However, perhaps some insight information based on the japanes gameplay or novels would help to clearify this, as well as some other translation of this game.

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Re: Gin from S2 is Gen from S1?

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Mon May 30, 2016 11:43 am

Neither Gin is Gen as the names are different even in Japanese, but the two Gins are most likely the same person.

The Gin that blocks you from entering Radat has the "san" suffix in his name for some weird reason, so his given name appears to be Mr. Gin. When Amada talks to the Gin at the sluice gate he calls him Gin-san as well.
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Re: Gin from S2 is Gen from S1?

Postby sticky-runes » Tue May 31, 2016 1:04 pm

I noticed that there was a guy named Gin blocking the entrance to Radat at the beginning of the game and that his sprite looks completely different from the Gin that Amada talks to when you want to close the sluice gate. I just assumed they were supposed to be the same NPC, and the different sprites were an oversight.

I never thought there was any connection to Gen, though. All the other returning characters have some sort of consistency with the parts they played in S1. Kage sneaks in and out of the shadows discussing his assignment. Lotte is wondering where her cat is. Sarah talks about keeping things clean. I'm pretty sure Gen would still be obsessing over boats and having tiffs with Khamandol. The Gin/s in Radat is a grumpy little dockworker who tells kids off, while Gen from S1 is a talented shipwright who literally helped win wars with his boat making skills. That would be a heck of a demotion.

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Re: Gin from S2 is Gen from S1?

Postby Sasarai10 » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:48 am

There must be a reason why this certain NPC has a name right? Those who have a name without a portrait, are less important than characters with portraits, but more important than common NPCs.

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Re: Gin from S2 is Gen from S1?

Postby sticky-runes » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:05 pm

I assume he was given a name just because he plays a minor story line part where Amada calls him off, like when Koyu talks the border guard Kokto into letting us pass.

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Re: Gin from S2 is Gen from S1?

Postby Sasarai10 » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:25 pm

sticky-runes wrote:I assume he was given a name just because he plays a minor story line part where Amada calls him off, like when Koyu talks the border guard Kokto into letting us pass.



This soldier didn't have a given name though. Some other characters that had, were Coates (Gordon's son) or Ko (the boy who is dressed like Riou in Banner Village). And of course some returning characters from SI, who are not playable (except Lepant who has a portrait).

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Re: Gin from S2 is Gen from S1?

Postby Vextor » Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:15 am

In Suikoden 2 there are many random folks who are given names with no real plot relevance. For example, Zenith the rune master in Muse, Milian the ship owner in Muse and her sister Melia, the "Outcast Runemistress" in White Deer Inn, Yasu the tomato-growing farmer in Tigermouth, Yuri the Runemistress in Two River, Meili the innmaid in Greenhill, Miau the kitten in Coronet that a buy has adopted, Min Min the waitress in Hai Yo's restaurant... some of these characters have their names displayed in green in the chat window. It seems there really was no clear reason for these occasions.

In regards to Gin being Gen, that would be highly unlikely for the following reasons:

1) The name is different. If the characters are intended to be the same, the name will not be mistaken consistently in multiple places.
2) If Gin is Gen, it is strange how he has no interaction with his war buddies from Suikoden 1, and will not help out his former comrades close the sluice gates (for example, Apple was with you when this happened).
3) Gen is a shipwright, not a sluice-gate operator -- although both professions have something to do with boats, it is similar to saying two people should be the same person because one person is an automotive engineer and the other is a traffic cop.
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Re: Gin from S2 is Gen from S1?

Postby sticky-runes » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:00 am

Vextor wrote:2) If Gin is Gen, it is strange how he has no interaction with his war buddies from Suikoden 1, and will not help out his former comrades close the sluice gates (for example, Apple was with you when this happened).


Very good point. When we need a boat to get Fitcher back to Two River and you talk with your allies in the war room, Viktor or Flik actually suggest seeking Tai Ho's help, while Apple suggests asking Amada for help. She was with us when we met Amada and Gin in Radat, and Gin even threatened to hit her if she didn't walk away. If the character was intended to be Gen, I think his interactions with Apple would have played out very differently, and she would likely suggest that we ask the former Liberation Army's boat expert to get us across the lake.

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Re: Gin from S2 is Gen from S1?

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:01 am

We need someone with a knowledge of Japanese to tell us if the original ideograms are similiar or if the similarity between the names Gin and Gen is due to translators screwing up (which they did a lot for Suikoden games)

Otherwise, after all, Radat is quite boat-oriented so why not, it could be the same guy.

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Re: Gin from S2 is Gen from S1?

Postby Antimatzist » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:09 am

BrucePrintscreen wrote:We need someone with a knowledge of Japanese to tell us if the original ideograms are similiar or if the similarity between the names Gin and Gen is due to translators screwing up (which they did a lot for Suikoden games)

Otherwise, after all, Radat is quite boat-oriented so why not, it could be the same guy.

Raww aleady pointed out that the names are different in Japanese as well.

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Re: Gin from S2 is Gen from S1?

Postby Wolkendrache » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:31 pm

I don't think Gen would leave his home and profession to become a sluice gate opener in Radat, commanded by someone even younger than him; oh, and changing his name into Gin. Nah...

If the sluice guy was called Qlon, I'd put more thought into it. Qlons seem to like shitty jobs.
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Re: Gin from S2 is Gen from S1?

Postby Sasarai10 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:39 am

Wolkendrache wrote:I don't think Gen would leave his home and profession to become a sluice gate opener in Radat, commanded by someone even younger than him; oh, and changing his name into Gin. Nah...

If the sluice guy was called Qlon, I'd put more thought into it. Qlons seem to like shitty jobs.



Weren't Amada and Gin had the same age? If I remember well, Gin was 23 in SI, so in SII he'd be 26 like Amada.


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