Thoughts on Nash

Hypotheses for, and analyses of, the various Suikoden characters.
eldrasidar
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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby eldrasidar » Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:38 pm

15 years does make a difference, particularly if Nash hadn't been training as diligently as he had been when he was with Howling Voice.

nobody said that Nash's dart gun thingie(I'm still not sure what he was using, except that i know it wasn't the knife he always had on him) was comparable to the grosser flux, you simply cannot compare any mundane weapon with a magic weapon. Now you could compare the star dragon sword to grosser flux, but that's completely different.

the greenhill incident isn't saying that Nash is a competent general tactician, but he is good at ground level tactics, but then, that's something pretty much any sergeant or lieutenant would be expected to be able to do. Nash does however display a charisma that allows him to work with numerous individuals not prepared for war.

the dragon fight shows more that he is good at surviving a fight, than being a great fighter, at least in terms of dealing damage.

Zombies are relatively easy to kill in the suikoden universe, as they tend to be the slow kind, not the crazy ones on speed. Even the vampire minion he kills isn't completely unbelievable, as he has shown numerous times to have very good instincts and reflexes. But had it been viktor instead of nash, it would be more likely that viktor would win even against rean, or at least come to a draw.

the fight with seed and culgan proves he is good at planning for a fight. however, most of the fighting ability comes from the grosser flux, not nash, and that needs to be remembered.

what you see from the suikogaidens, and suikoden 3, is that nash is resourceful, insightful, and knowledgeable. He has some pretty sharp fighting skills from being trained in howling voice. He also has helped numerous people who he didn't have to. so he is a pretty great guy. but in terms of being on fighting calibre of Yuber, Humphrey, Viktor, Georg or the crazy powerful fighter of your choice, he is not going to compete.

that all said, he really isn't that bad in suikoden 3. he gets heavy damage and continuous attack, he gets two runes slots, which could be filled with all sorts of combos(fury, killer is fun). It's true his magic skills aren't amazing, but they aren't terrible, and few characters that are similar to him combat wise have anything better, plus with magic rings, wizard hats, wind hats, etc, you can easily make Nash's magic pretty solid. Plot wise, it would have been nice to see more of what Nash did, but let's face it, as a spy, it's kinda important to not see his awesomeness.

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Vextor
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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby Vextor » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:14 pm

My dad is coming up on forty and he is just as strong, if not stronger, as he was 15 years ago.

Good for your dad. He may have put in a lot of work to maintain his body (or he could have been weaker than average 15 years ago), because the National Institute of Health, among other association of doctors state how all human body functions start degenerating from the 20s. The general tendency for the average human is that their body starts to rust after their 20s. You should read some books.

2nd the Grosser Fluss: Oh really? But a silly little dart gun can?!?!

Clearly not. The only way Nash was able to show any "combat greatness" in the Gaiden was due to his use of the Grosser Fluss. He's far more mediocre when using any other weapon. You made the assertion that Nash should have used a plain un-cursed sword, so it seems you're arguing against yourself here.

Capable tactician!?! I don't remember him helping out too much in Suikoden 3 for the war battles..

Why would his skill as tactician be required when the army already has a chief strategist and other strategists such as Salome? The only reason his moderate skills in military tactics was useful at Greenhill is because everyone else was an amateur. Also, he does help out with war battles in Suikoden 3 by feeding information to Salome and Caesar that he gains from his contacts in Harmonia.

Even with help, he would have to be a good fighter in order to help beat the dragon. I doubt Humphrey would have let anyone join the fight.

Oh, I'm sure nobody would disagree that Nash is a "good fighter." However, your initial assertion is that Nash must have been a "great fighter." You're cleverly changing the words you use, but "great" means first-rate and having none above, while "good" only means you're above average. It's sort of like calling "Alexander the Great" with a different title... "Alexander the Good," and you can see how the image changes drastically.

True he couldn't beat Rean, but he did manage to beat EVERY OTHER SINGLE ZOMBIE THERE WITHOUT SEIRRA'S HELP! You still say he isn't a good fighter?

This goes to show making statements in all caps doesn't make it any more factual, because Nash doesn't defeat every single zombie on his own. In fact, depending on a couple of the choices, Sierra ends up defeating all the zombies on her own. At best, Nash manages to defeat a few Zombies along with Sierra, but never does he defeat all of them. Thus, the basis of your argument here is founded on false information, voiding it.

It proves he is supposed to be a good fighter! He must have already knew he would be outmatched so he coated his weapon with poison before hand so he would have an escape route.

Nobody would disagree that Nash is a "good fighter," however, your initial assertion is that Nash was a "great fighter" because he "beat Seed and Culgan in a duel." My only interest is correcting that factual inaccuracy, so I'm satisfied by the fact that you've already acknowledged the fallacy of your initial assertion.
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yuberluc
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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby yuberluc » Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:17 am

well i think in suikoden 3 Nash is like a spy kinda stuff, so konami designed the character more like stealth,that's why he isn't using sword anymore.. but still he's kinda cool character.. smooth talker to all the ladies hehe
Chaos will suit me just fine

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27x4=108
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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby 27x4=108 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:23 am

Oh really?

The characters change through games, because people dont fight so hard every time, only when they think its the moment. Their powers differ of the age, the motivations, the runes and weapons disponibles, etc.


For example:

-Luc always had the True Wind Rune, and is a brat in Suikoden I, a good magic user in II, and a ubber powerfull true rune user, capable of win to Sasarai and the bad guy in III.
Why? Because with years he learned of his condition and about Harmonia and Sasarai and wanted to finish it. Why dont use the True Rune in I? Because he ignores so much what happens to all the people, in II the same and he only moved hard when he saw Sasarai.

-Georg is a old and strong fighter who doesnt put himself in the plot in Suikoden II and a very important guy in V.
Why? Because of Ferid and him returning a favour. In II he only is helping a little, so you cant see him in the reunions or doing hard work of information and research like V.

-Leknaat helped a lot in some wars in Suikoden I using his increible powers, and nothing amazing in all the other games, so if you didnt played Suikoden I you dont know if she's powerfull or not.
Why? Because of the Gate Rune of course! She wanted to stop Windy, so she helped to change the destiny she half-see.

-Sierra recovers the Blue Moon Rune in Suikoden II, and she has lots and lots of years of mastering the powers of the rune, so she maybe could do really amazing things. But once she recovers it you cant even see what powers the rune has, nor see it equipped to her.
Why? She already did what she wanted, and she is not interested in the war. The truth is that is a miracle that you can use her in your party for the rest of the game.

-Tir has the Soul Eater, and can use it in Suikoden II, but you cant compare the things Tir did in I to the "I will help you" of II.
Why? He is the main character in I, you really need an explanation?



A really powerfull character maybe dont want to use his full powers depending of the moment, and may use his powers only if the guy wants, thats all, so I dont understand your complains.


If you look at what the web says:

In battle, Nash uses a wide arsenal of weapons. Nash is a psychological fighter who uses many tricks in battle to defeat his opponents. However, he also possesses inhuman fighting skills when wielding Grosser Fluss. He was able to fight with Seed and Culgan, both powerful Highland generals, at the same time using his sword. However, he prefers to use Grosser Fluss only when it is absolutely necessary due to a "curse" of the sword which makes Nash lose distinction between friend and foe. - Blue Moon, KoRnholio


Nash have major motivations in gaidens and nothing really interesting to do in III, so for me its so much that he helps Chris! And he did because Salome told him to do and he wanted.

He dont use his strong weapons because he hasnt the motivation to do, if he can help correctly with his other weapons and skills, why not?
Sorry for my very bad english! :S

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Hirathien
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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby Hirathien » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:48 am

Georg is powerful in Suikoden 2, in pure strength that is. That's why he's called Deathblow Georg, hits hard, some stuff dies right away.

And about Nash, not having motivation for using Grosser Fluss, well, he can't tell friend or foe apart. So are you surprised he aint using it? Motivation or no motivation, it's a dangerous weapon.

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27x4=108
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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby 27x4=108 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:47 am

Hirathien wrote:Georg is powerful in Suikoden 2, in pure strength that is. That's why he's called Deathblow Georg, hits hard, some stuff dies right away.

And about Nash, not having motivation for using Grosser Fluss, well, he can't tell friend or foe apart. So are you surprised he aint using it? Motivation or no motivation, it's a dangerous weapon.


So he will use that weapon if he really need power, if not ( lack of motivation ) he wont.

Georg is powerfull, but he could do so much more than only fight with your party, in fact he is a general, but I think he does nothing in comparison to V, so, hes almost equal in power in both games but in II he doesnt have the motivation to fight so strong as he did in V.
Sorry for my very bad english! :S

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yuberluc
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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby yuberluc » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:43 am

27x4=108 wrote:Oh really?

The characters change through games, because people dont fight so hard every time, only when they think its the moment. Their powers differ of the age, the motivations, the runes and weapons disponibles, etc.


Well it's true because Every Designer of a character must know the situation,his personality, his background, his job desk..

in this situation(suikoden 3) nash is a spy, he have to move fast,fight fast so maybe that's why konami designed nash that way.. his age also make him more elegant than the previously series (suikogaiden).

By the way i like konami designed sasarai in suiko3, he's more elegant than nash, more humor in a sarcastic ways. I hope in suiko6 he'll be more seriously because now he knows the truth who he is or what he is..
Chaos will suit me just fine

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Aerolithe Lion
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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby Aerolithe Lion » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:52 pm

"He starts with a water rune for some reason and he isn't even good with it! Watari with a wind rune is better and can hit more times. Plus can evade better."

Never use game mechanics to determine who is or isn't legitimately worthy in the storyline.

Joker with a rage rune is vastly superior to any of the FC's as far as game mechanics. Juan makes Wan Fu look like Alanis in the combat department.

This doesn't mean Joker is the next Crowley or that Juan is some legendary warrior, it's just game mechanics.


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