Thoughts on Nash

Hypotheses for, and analyses of, the various Suikoden characters.
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Thoughts on Nash

Postby Pesmerga_pwns_Yuber » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:51 pm

I've been reading the character bios just to past the time and soon began to realize that nearly every other one mentions Nash...WHY!?! The bios make him seem like this great fighter and all, but I disagree! In Suikoden 3 the only thing I thought was good about him was it was easy for him to get multiple hits, but he wasn't even as good as the ninjas. He helped in Greenhill with a few others, slayed a stray dragon with Humphrey, Futch, and Sheena, killed a vampire with Seirra, beat Seed and Culgan in a duel, I mean, come on! What else as he done!? Why do the bios make him sound like an epic character, but isn't really that great....

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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby RangerDeon » Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:54 pm

Hey, hey! Nash is awesome!
You wanna take this outside!?!?

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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby Pesmerga_pwns_Yuber » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:11 pm

How can you saw Nash is awesome?! He starts with a water rune for some reason and he isn't even good with it! Watari with a wind rune is better and can hit more times. Plus can evade better.

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Vextor
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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby Vextor » Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:44 pm

The main problem is due to plot. Nash used a powerful sword called Grosser Fluss in the Gaidens, which is the main reason why he was able to fight against all those strong people. He ditches the sword at the conclusion of the gaidens, so he is less powerful in Suikoden 3. Also, you also need to take into account that Suikogaiden takes place roughly 15 years before Suikoden 3, so Nash is significantly older, and thus would be weaker than in his prime years.

Also, it is a fact that he did all that stuff, mainly because he was the main character in Suikogaiden. He clearly isn't "uber powerful" in Suikoden 3, but you don't want to mix plot elements with game mechanics. Otherwise, you'll have to throw a tantrum by the fact that Sierra clearly has less HP when she joins you as opposed to when you fought against her before she joins.
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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby Pesmerga_pwns_Yuber » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:11 pm

I know how the gaidens are different and about the sword. I didn't know it was a 15 years difference, but I doubt that makes that much of a difference. And if he ditched the sword because of the curse, why not just find a plain uncursed sword?

And I'm not mixing plot elements with game mechanics. I'm just saying they should have made him a BETTER fighter in Suikoden 3. Surely he would still have some sort of skill in fighting...instead of being a coward with a little dart gun hidden in his sleeve like James Bond....

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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby Vextor » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:05 pm

Pesmerga_pwns_Yuber wrote:I know how the gaidens are different and about the sword. I didn't know it was a 15 years difference, but I doubt that makes that much of a difference.


Well, there actually is quite a difference between how your body functions when you're 22 as opposed to when you're 37! I'm 35 years old, and I can tell you the difference is really quite noticeable, and when I was young I didn't think it would be this bad.

Also, Nash using a "normal sword" wouldn't really measure up to the total awesome badassness of the Grosser Fluss. There clearly can't even be a comparison.

As far as his other exploits you mention:

"He helped in Greenhill with a few others": This is pretty much plot based and doesn't have much to do with his combat prowess. Nothing here really shows how he's a "great fighter." It only shows him being a capable tactician.

"slayed a stray dragon with Humphrey, Futch, and Sheena": Yep, he fought against a dragon with three other people, including a tank of a man and a dragon knight who knows a lot about dragons and how to kill them. You also can't discount Sheena who gets good blood from his swordmaster father and magic-using mom. What does Nash do here that makes him sound like a "great fighter" as you say?

"killed a vampire with Seirra,": this was mostly done by Sierra though. Nash really wasn't able to do anything against Rean. All he did was allow Sierra to suck his blood so she had enough strength to destroy Rean. Again, nothing here shows Nash is a "great fighter."

"beat Seed and Culgan in a duel": First of all, a "duel" is fought between two people. Not three or four, but two. Second, he didn't beat Seed and Culgan in that fight. He merely wounded Seed, and was defeated by Culgan. He was able to get out of that tangle because his sword was coated with poison, which would have led to Seed's certain death. Nash bargained with Culgan to let him go in exchange of an antidote. Again, doesn't show how Nash is a "great fighter."

So, now then, it would seem as if your premise is based on exaggeration and / or conjecture that lacks factual support. What this means is your opinion loses much of any value, so I would hope you can provide better backing for your supposition.
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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby RangerDeon » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:34 pm

I think he's awesome given his situation.
He's a screw up, a giant flirt, who gets into sticky situations but finds a way to get out of them.

He's no the powerhouse, but powerhouses aren't necessarily "the best"
I think his awesome comes from him not being the fastest like the ninja or the powerhouse like (who's a powerhouse in Suikoden III?) but that he was able to accomplish all this (even with help).

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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby Pesmerga_pwns_Yuber » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:49 pm

This is why I don't like arguing with Admins....

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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby Hirathien » Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:03 am

Pesmerga_pwns_Yuber wrote:This is why I don't like arguing with Admins....



Not really an argument, you can't argue without backing up what you're saying.

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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby Vextor » Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:44 am

Yep, and the arguments I made have nothing to do with me being an admin, so again some strange logic going on here.
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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby Pesmerga_pwns_Yuber » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:35 am

Hirathien wrote:
Pesmerga_pwns_Yuber wrote:This is why I don't like arguing with Admins....



Not really an argument, you can't argue without backing up what you're saying.


Actually, I can argue without backing up what I say. I've done it before.

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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby Pesmerga_pwns_Yuber » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:36 am

Vextor wrote:Yep, and the arguments I made have nothing to do with me being an admin, so again some strange logic going on here.


All this does not change the fact that I do not like Nash in game or in plot.

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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:41 am

Pesmerga_pwns_Yuber wrote:Actually, I can argue without backing up what I say. I've done it before.

Yeah but you can't win which makes it utterly pointless and furthermore makes you look like a fool.

All this does not change the fact that I do not like Nash in game or in plot.

Certainly information worthy of it's own topic, cause that's just fascinating in every way.
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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby Pesmerga_pwns_Yuber » Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:31 am

Raww Le Klueze wrote:
Pesmerga_pwns_Yuber wrote:Actually, I can argue without backing up what I say. I've done it before.

Yeah but you can't win which makes it utterly pointless and furthermore makes you look like a fool.

What!? I've won plenty arguments without backing up my reasons! I think it is a little unfair you automatically assume that someone cannot win without backing up their reasons just because you don't have the talent to do so...

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Re: Thoughts on Nash

Postby Pesmerga_pwns_Yuber » Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:50 am

My dad is coming up on forty and he is just as strong, if not stronger, as he was 15 years ago.

2nd the Grosser Fluss: Oh really? But a silly little dart gun can?!?!

Capable tactician!?! I don't remember him helping out too much in Suikoden 3 for the war battles..

Even with help, he would have to be a good fighter in order to help beat the dragon. I doubt Humphrey would have let anyone join the fight.

True he couldn't beat Rean, but he did manage to beat EVERY OTHER SINGLE ZOMBIE THERE WITHOUT SEIRRA'S HELP! You still say he isn't a good fighter?

It proves he is supposed to be a good fighter! He must have already knew he would be outmatched so he coated his weapon with poison before hand so he would have an escape route.

[Edit by Vextor: Sorry about this, but when I tried to reply to this post, I pushed "edit" instead of "quote" and ended up erasing a huge chunk. I can only recover the comments above. Apologies for this clumsiness]


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