Mathiu Silverberg, Bad stratagist or the worst stratagist

Hypotheses for, and analyses of, the various Suikoden characters.
snakebite105
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Re: Mathiu Silverberg, Bad stratagist or the worst stratagist

Postby snakebite105 » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:55 pm

Im a bit confused about what we're discussing. If they didn't go up against Teo they would have never been able to take Gregminister and the Bridge near Lepants town would have been retaken.

I kinda figured that Teo was attacking that bridge and thats why the liberation needed to confront him.
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Re: Mathiu Silverberg, Bad stratagist or the worst stratagist

Postby JanusThePaladin » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:04 pm

I'll have to play the game again, because i dont remember any mention of that. My understanding was that he was attacking the castle.

snakebite105
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Re: Mathiu Silverberg, Bad stratagist or the worst stratagist

Postby snakebite105 » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:51 pm

The battles take place just East of Garan Fortress (Where you Recruit Kai and Quincy) and Directly south of Toran Castle.

Gen mentions that he can see on the shore from Toran Castle and then MATHIU suggests in all his wisdom to test Teo's strength killing 8000+ troops in the process.

It makes sense to me that he may have been attacking Garan Fortress as theres no real reason for him to go to Toran Castle yet as he still needs to recapture several zones that Tir just Liberated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSxY8IuY ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfETvE5Q ... re=related

These videos contain both battles.
I'm a fan but I'm also a critic. Without preasure to improve stagnation is the future. Do not accept lackluster because of your enjoyment of the overall picture. Criticism is needed for improvement to be made.

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Re: Mathiu Silverberg, Bad stratagist or the worst stratagist

Postby JanusThePaladin » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:41 am

Ah, so i was mistaken. It happens. However, it doesnt change the fact that there was no need to meet Teo face to face that early.

snakebite105
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Re: Mathiu Silverberg, Bad stratagist or the worst stratagist

Postby snakebite105 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:31 pm

We could also argue that there was no need for anything to happen but then nothing would progress.
I'm a fan but I'm also a critic. Without preasure to improve stagnation is the future. Do not accept lackluster because of your enjoyment of the overall picture. Criticism is needed for improvement to be made.

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Re: Mathiu Silverberg, Bad stratagist or the worst stratagist

Postby JanusThePaladin » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:41 pm

Um, we could argue that, but that would have no bearing on this topic. The topic is whether or no Mathiu was a good strategist. Here i offer you an example of why he would not have been, and here you reply with a smart ass comment.

Anyway, back on topic. How is it that Mathiu was not cognizant of the power of Teo's armored calvalry? Think about it, Mathiu has a wealth of knowledge about troop placement, strengths, history, and even the individual general's personalities, and yet has NEVER heard of the unstoppable armored calvalry? Unless this was something utterly new, the empire had to have used the calvalry at some other point in their mariad wars.

snakebite105
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Re: Mathiu Silverberg, Bad stratagist or the worst stratagist

Postby snakebite105 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:05 pm

Mathiu has been retired since the succession war. Times change. Armies change.
I'm a fan but I'm also a critic. Without preasure to improve stagnation is the future. Do not accept lackluster because of your enjoyment of the overall picture. Criticism is needed for improvement to be made.

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Re: Mathiu Silverberg, Bad stratagist or the worst stratagist

Postby JanusThePaladin » Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:32 pm

My response to that is that Mathiu evidences a vast knowledge of other things going on within the empire, such as troop placement, individual general's personalities, and various other intricacies of war. I would think that even from the far north, Mathiu would have heard of the nigh unbeatable armored calvalry.

snakebite105
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Re: Mathiu Silverberg, Bad stratagist or the worst stratagist

Postby snakebite105 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:42 pm

Which raises the question why he failed so badly during the first encounter with Teo.
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Re: Mathiu Silverberg, Bad stratagist or the worst stratagist

Postby JanusThePaladin » Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:30 pm

Actually, my thoughts were why there was a first encounter in the first place. Seems to me it was only to demoralize the troops, as they lost 8000+ men AND may have lost Pahn.

Rezard
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Re: Mathiu Silverberg, Bad stratagist or the worst stratagist

Postby Rezard » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:42 am

snakebite105 wrote:Which raises the question why he failed so badly during the first encounter with Teo.

It's not Mathiu that is weak, it is Teo that's strong. Saying that Mathiu is weak cause of this is like saying that Shu is weak for losing to Lucca.

He is being assalted by a strong opponent, what do you want him to do? Abandon his position and let the empire take back the land without a fight, that way wouldnt the villages around feel betrayed by the rebel army. He took his chances and choose to confront Teo, if they lost they had much ground to retreat and also would gave a good time to analyse his enemy and find its weakness, which was what happened.

If they choose to avoid a fight, they could have lost the support of the abandoned territories and they wouldnt have the choice to retreat later on. It doesnt seem absurd to me the choice Mathiu made, he is fighting a powerfull enemy, but doesnt have super resources with him.

He is not like Lucrecia, who recieve the resources before she needs them, Mathiu has to improvise with what he has. It is not his fault if Teo and Milich have might secret weapons, he needs to confront them in order to come up with a plan, as everybody is saying, he is not physic who knows everything or some lucky goodness who recieves might war resources before he needs them.

From almost all Strategists, Mathiu is the one who had least lucky, the others recieved "gifts" who saved them on hard occasions, but Mathiu had to come up with good plans while being assalted with powerfull enemies. It is more realistic, he finds the enemy, learns of it and them fights agaisnt it.

snakebite105
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Re: Mathiu Silverberg, Bad stratagist or the worst stratagist

Postby snakebite105 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:52 am

But there are smarter ways to go about it then "Testing his strength"

Like not fighting a force that cannot assult your main HQ. It didn't take them all that long afterwards to remember they had firespears.
I'm a fan but I'm also a critic. Without preasure to improve stagnation is the future. Do not accept lackluster because of your enjoyment of the overall picture. Criticism is needed for improvement to be made.

widjaja23

Re: Mathiu Silverberg, Bad stratagist or the worst stratagist

Postby widjaja23 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:39 am

his strategies seemed to be quite obvious and basic.
Compared to shu in suikoden 2, shu actually had battle strategies, such as attacking solon jhee's army

conan
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Re: Mathiu Silverberg, Bad stratagist or the worst stratagist

Postby conan » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:04 am

mathiu was by far the best strategist to me. shu constantly made miracles happen, so it seemed like we never needed a large in II to begin with since shu took care of every damn thing he shoulda been the leader 2 begin with. Caesar had an annoying personality, cant remember IV strategist or lucretia tho. everything shu did seemed almost unbelievable, and the only time reality was setting in was when luca was coming 2 do the night raid and finish off the army, but that was stupid as well cuz lucas army was so comparatively strong that he could have moved in for the kill in broad day. he was proly talked into doin so by leon. shu gets help from leon to finish luca, who was the sole key to highlands victory. mathiu was more realistic and understood that a certain manpower was required 2 win major battles, and miracles dont always happen. caesar was more believable than shu tho, but he wasnt likeable 2 me the way mathiu was. Mathiu was the best hands down, but i do plan on playin V again since i remember things very vaguely.

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Re: Mathiu Silverberg, Bad stratagist or the worst stratagist

Postby RangerDeon » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:42 am

I think after the first game. . .the other strategists were a bit unrealistic. . . specifically in Suikoden V. There was just so many "OMG GURL YOU ARE SMART! EVERYTHING GOES YOUR WAY" and no enough failure. . .unless she planned for you to fail or you didn't listen to her advice. Strategists are human, and within humans lies error. . and she showed none. Extremely unrealistic.

Mathiu on the other hand had error. . . not because of his lack of strategic value, but because the other side were just as good. He had his ups and his downs. . and that's what I loved about it because there's no such thing as a 0% fail rate when it comes to war. The others were just too perfect.

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