Leadership of the Toran Republic in Suik III

Questions about the locations mentioned in the series; and those about the backstory not seen in the games.
Quing
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Re: Leadership of the Toran Republic in Suik III

Post by Quing »

How is a group to "randomly" come to a decision as to the best person to lead a country? The only options I can think of for one to come to such a decision in a republic would be to have a senate who debate to find the best candidate, in which case, the most influential group wins, which seems an awful lot like an election, or to have a general election by the people, which is likewise an election. I'd like to remind you that in the United States (which I would consider a republic) it is the electoral college, and not the people who elect the president (creating a situation similar to my first scenario). If you can think of another way to select a leader in a republic, feel free to present it, but I cannot think of one which manages to dodge some sort of election.

By the way, if I come across as harsh, it is not meant that way. I mean this in a purely intellectual light.
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Re: Leadership of the Toran Republic in Suik III

Post by Chris_Lightfellow »

I'd like to remind you that in the United States (which I would consider a republic) it is the electoral college, and not the people who elect the president (creating a situation similar to my first scenario).
Technically, the US is a democratic republic, fyi.
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Re: Leadership of the Toran Republic in Suik III

Post by Gen. Dirge »

Quing wrote:How is a group to "randomly" come to a decision as to the best person to lead a country? The only options I can think of for one to come to such a decision in a republic would be to have a senate who debate to find the best candidate, in which case, the most influential group wins, which seems an awful lot like an election, or to have a general election by the people, which is likewise an election. I'd like to remind you that in the United States (which I would consider a republic) it is the electoral college, and not the people who elect the president (creating a situation similar to my first scenario). If you can think of another way to select a leader in a republic, feel free to present it, but I cannot think of one which manages to dodge some sort of election.

By the way, if I come across as harsh, it is not meant that way. I mean this in a purely intellectual light.
Huh? ??? Were you directing that to me or someone else? (Probably me....)

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Quing
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Re: Leadership of the Toran Republic in Suik III

Post by Quing »

Gen. Dirge wrote: Would they just randomly choose the best person to lead the country or would they have elections? I'm just curious.....
Yeah, man. I directed it toward you. As I said, I think that in order for a republic to come to a consensus about leadership, they would have to elect the leader in some way. I simply can't think of any other way, save the country becoming a dictatorship.
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suiko2fan2
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Re: Leadership of the Toran Republic in Suik III

Post by suiko2fan2 »

Given that the Toran Republic is well...ummm a republic that they would have a new president after 18 years. We simply dont know. But if we use the Dunan Republic, we know Shu was Chancellor, then Teresa took over, and Suikoden III seemed to suggest maybe Fitcher took over after that, though maybe it just meant as muse mayor. Anyhow we see the transition of a least 2 leaders (maybe 3) from suikoden II that was over the course 15 years. Logic would suggest that over 18 years Toran would have a least 2 leadership transitions from Lepant to some new? the real question simply would be who....

whether a senate or a popular vote. people are people and both will choose a type of person who meets certain requirements. Most in Toran would probably favor someone who is well known with credentials, trustworthy, fought in the liberation war, probably rich and somewhat influential, with a good power base of supporters in the republic, and popularly respected by both common and noble alike. Someone who is wise and strong. Most new countries will lean toward these type of leaders (look at the US's 1st 5 presidents..all meet these requirements). With that said i'd suggest the new president could possible be one of 5 Great Generals (Kasim, Sonya, Mlitch, etc...) maybe Griffith, Alen, or Grensel with there military backgrounds, but if then went toward more of a statemens side then maybe Tesla or mose or someone like that. But anyone is possible they dont even have to be one of the 108, but if were a betting man, i had put my money on 1 of 5(or is 6 now) generals. Probably Sonya or Mlitch. Both are intelligent, notably warriors, with strong backgrounds, and both have all the other traits i mentioned earlier. I would have voted for Kasim hands down but he was old in suiko1, by suiko3 he's prob well retired if not dead. Kwanda and Valeria seem to be more warriors..like it simple, not politcal type and Kai like Kasim too old. so yeah i'd guess either Mlitch or Sonya.
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Re: Leadership of the Toran Republic in Suik III

Post by Gen. Dirge »

You mentioned Millich......even though he IS intelligent....and skilled.....



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Re: Leadership of the Toran Republic in Suik III

Post by Vextor »

Actually during Suikoden III's time, Lepant is indeed still president of the Toran Republic.

A head of state of a republic isn't always elected, by the way. Being a republic only means that the country doesn't have a monarch, and that the people have some say in the actions of the government. Otherwise, a republic can come in many shapes and forms. Some republics have indeed had heriditary head of state, while some republics have heads of states who are not head of government. Some republics are democracies, which means the leader is elected. Japan for example has the Emperor as a head of state who is hereditary, but the head of the actual government is the prime minister who is not elected by the people, but is instead appointed by the majority party within the upper and lower houses. Members of the houses are elected by the people, however.

The case of USA is also unique because the people don't techically elect the head of state directly-- the elctors are the ones who vote (which makes them a "representative democracy). So being a republic doesn't mean a government is also a democracy-- in fact, very few republics are true democracies.
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Re: Leadership of the Toran Republic in Suik III

Post by suiko2fan2 »

Vextor wrote:Actually during Suikoden III's time, Lepant is indeed still president of the Toran Republic.

you say this, but what is the source of your info, i am not saying i dont doubt you, but anyone can claim something as true, but i am asking what is the source of your claim please? because I and others who have posted here do not who is president in toran during S3
I will establish one mighty nation in this land. A single, powerful nation, born of force and wielding force. That is the one and only way of freeing this land from war.

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www.fanfiction.net/s/5194891/1/The-Puni ... of-the-Sun
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Re: Leadership of the Toran Republic in Suik III

Post by Vextor »

The suikoden 3 108 character guide (only available in Japanese) includes an encyclopedia section. Within that section they describe the current administrative structure of the Toran Republic during the time of suikoden 3, which goes like this:

President: Lepant
Secretary: Tesla
Minister of Consturction: Mose
Minister of Finace: Unknown (Jabba retired)
Guildmaster: Kun To
Supreme Justice: Hugo (not the Suikoden 3 Hugo)
Capital Guard General of the Right: Alen
Capital Guard General of the Left: Grenseal
Border Guard Captain: Varkas
Patrol Captain: Unknown (Kessler retired)
Six Great Generals: Kwanda Rossman, Sonya Schulen, Camille. Valeria, Kai, and Kasim Hazil become Honorary Generals and retire from front-line duty. Two of the positions are filled by unnamed successors and one position remains vacant.
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suiko2fan2
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Re: Leadership of the Toran Republic in Suik III

Post by suiko2fan2 »

thank you for the source & list vextor
I will establish one mighty nation in this land. A single, powerful nation, born of force and wielding force. That is the one and only way of freeing this land from war.

Best Suiko FanFic:
www.fanfiction.net/s/5194891/1/The-Puni ... of-the-Sun
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Re: Leadership of the Toran Republic in Suik III

Post by Siel Avadon »

I dont really see anyone being President, Morely like Guvernor of Toran, Chief, Commander, King...but President? To Modern word and breaks the mood for me atleast.
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Re: Leadership of the Toran Republic in Suik III

Post by suiko2fan2 »

Siel Avadon wrote:I dont really see anyone being President, Morely like Guvernor of Toran, Chief, Commander, King...but President? To Modern word and breaks the mood for me atleast.
don't let the word and title of president, be limited to merely the US usage of the word. The title of president actually goes back hundreds of years to the 1400's in the English universities, such as oxford or cambridge, and was a term giving to person who 'presided' over the colleges staff at their meetings and what not. later president got applied to councils and other formal bodies of govt, so i think president, not as old, as something like king or chief certainly can be used for Suikoden, and not upset the mood of story.
I will establish one mighty nation in this land. A single, powerful nation, born of force and wielding force. That is the one and only way of freeing this land from war.

Best Suiko FanFic:
www.fanfiction.net/s/5194891/1/The-Puni ... of-the-Sun
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Re: Leadership of the Toran Republic in Suik III

Post by Siel Avadon »

suiko2fan2 wrote:
Siel Avadon wrote:I dont really see anyone being President, Morely like Guvernor of Toran, Chief, Commander, King...but President? To Modern word and breaks the mood for me atleast.
don't let the word and title of president, be limited to merely the US usage of the word. The title of president actually goes back hundreds of years to the 1400's in the English universities, such as oxford or cambridge, and was a term giving to person who 'presided' over the colleges staff at their meetings and what not. later president got applied to councils and other formal bodies of govt, so i think president, not as old, as something like king or chief certainly can be used for Suikoden, and not upset the mood of story.
Ah, I see, To me Its simply just Is a term of a nation that gone from the old Imperial, Feudalist (Monarchy) Style and dont fit with the era that I Believe Suikoden Is In. After all, I come from a monarch and we never been close to have a president :)

But I see then, But I surely will frown at seeing the term used in Suikoden! :wink:
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Re: Leadership of the Toran Republic in Suik III

Post by future_suikoden_writer »

[quote="Red rune"][quote="son_michael"]maybe after 15 years of of isolation Tir would be ready to go back and lead?

I mean...Imagine a nation with the same leader for 100 or so years...now thats a powerful man and powerful nation[/quote]


I've noticed with all the hero's that they stop leading their army after the war, Tir isolated himself from most of the world, Riou travelled with Jowy and Nanami after the war, Hugo Geddoe and Chris stopped working with each other and went their own seperate ways, Lazlo was thought to be dead after the war, Kyril mysteriously vanished and the Prince went with Lym somewhere. None of them continued to lead a nation or army after the war. Is their any of the tenkai's (excluding Thomas) who didnt follow this pattern?[/quote]


its all because they've got true runes.. there will come a time that these runes might possess them which can causes turmoils or destruction of their country... or not being possessed,they might engage war to other countries,which is theoretically not good for the story,because those tenkai's are good examples or have good rulings, so it will be a bad idea if all of those good guys ( if they became the leader of their country) having war with each other...

best example, harmonia --->> hikusaak, he wants all the true rune..









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Re: Leadership of the Toran Republic in Suik III

Post by Rezard »

Vextor wrote:A head of state of a republic isn't always elected, by the way. Being a republic only means that the country doesn't have a monarch, and that the people have some say in the actions of the government. Otherwise, a republic can come in many shapes and forms. Some republics have indeed had heriditary head of state, while some republics have heads of states who are not head of government. Some republics are democracies, which means the leader is elected. Japan for example has the Emperor as a head of state who is hereditary, but the head of the actual government is the prime minister who is not elected by the people, but is instead appointed by the majority party within the upper and lower houses. Members of the houses are elected by the people, however.
I doubt Lepant is just a head of state without any real power, mostly likely he is the head of government too, since in SII he seemed to be in charge.

A republic means a government by the people for the people, so elections are essencial. One can think simply that Lepant was reelected numerous times or that the Toran Republic is a republic only in name. Most likely the one who wrote that guide just forgot that Toran was a republic.
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