Intro.& Question about the Rune of Darkness & Ressur

[~Uriah~]

Hi guys im new to the forums, well not really i've been reading this forum eversince i played my first suikoden and also been in and out of this site but never had the chance to make an account in the forums until 2 days ago.

The first suikoden game i ever played was suikoden 2 that was more than 4 yrs. ago and i became an instant fan of the series, i played everygame except suikoden 5 my least favourite of the game is suikoden 3 didnt like it, suikoden 2 is the best out of all the series, and the other 2 are just an average suikoden game to me.

I was wondering whatever happened to the DarknessRune, Ressurection Rune and BlueGate Rune in Suikoden 4 there was none of these 3 but in suikoden 3 only BlueGate Rune was in the Game and plus other new Runes like the Shield Rune. These just disappeared in the runeshops of the games, they were very usefull too why did Konami take those runes out of the games, does anyone know? What other rune has been in the old suikodens' that are not in the new suikoden games?

[MatildaWhiteKnightLeader]

the Darkness Rune is a lower level rune of the Soul Eater. I guess the instant death spells didn't make the game challenging.

The Resurrection Rune was in suikoden 1 and 2. Since Neclord was killed in suikoden 2 and thus most of the zombies and vampires disappeared also. So there was no need for the rune in suikoden 3. And there's no undead creatures in suikoden 4 i believe except for skeletons and maybe those things that come back to life after each turn.

The shield runes in suikoden 3 is almost the same as Riou's bright shield rune in suikoden 2. The only difference is it doesn't have the last spell. During the timeline of suikoden 4, you don't know what happened to the Rune of Beginning. I think the shield runes come from the Bright shield rune of the rune of beginning.

The pale/blue gate runes... umm well they weren't giving you great animation from rune spells anyway. Instead, they gave you better animation of unite/friendship attacks.

[son_michael]

the Darkness Rune is a lower level rune of the Soul Eater.

you dont know that, thats only speculation, its not official info

[Lemmy Claypool]

Yes, it is.

[Moonbay]

According to the main site--the Darkness Rune is Born of the Soul Eater Rune.

And this isn't the first time I've noticed this:

Suikoden 1 has the True Rune: Soul Eater

Suikoden 2 has the True Runes: Bright Shield Rune and Black Sword Rune, yet has the Darkness Rune Born from the Soul Eater.

Suikoden 3 has all the True Element Runes: Water, Lightning, Fire, Earth, and Wind, yet has the Shield Rune born from the Bright Shield Rune. (So, what happened to Black Sword Rune's offspring?) I think that since the True Runes in this game were elemental runes--their offspring have existed from the beginning.

So--Perhaps since the Soul Eater was hidden for such a long time--there were no Darkness Runes born from it. It's also possible that the Rune doesn't spawn anything until it hits it final level (like Materia in FFVII). That's why we don't see them in IV.

And as Lemmy said, since the incident with the RotB wasn't known at the time of IV--there's no way to have Shield Runes.

I'd like to see what common runes are born from the RoP, though.

[demon eye]

I agree with everything except maybe the end part about the Rune of Beginning. I think it was just the fact that the idea for the Rune of Beginning had not been thought up yet. It would be odd that the incident wasn't known at that time based on the fact that the Rune of Beginning is a True Rune and should have been around long before the events of Suikoden 4. There is no reason why their wouldn't be lower tiers Shield Runes around. I think the reason why we only see lower tier runes of non-elemental True Runes only a temporary basis is based on the nature of the True Runes themselves.

Nature is active and in everything around the mortal realms. Thus, it makes since that we would see lower tier elemental runes frequently. But, darkness runes and shield runes are less common because of the True Runes that give birth to them because their powers aren't within the flow of nature. You would have to read about the class rankings I give True Runes in my editorial to fully grasp what I'm trying to say. But, there seems to be an order or should I say hierarchy between the True Runes and how they affect the mortal realms and I think that is directly related to the frequency of their lower tier runes appearing.

[Lemmy Claypool]

And as Lemmy said, since the incident with the RotB wasn't known at the time of IV--there's no way to have Shield Runes.

I didn't say that

I was just correcting son_michael.

[son_michael]

I stand corrected, I didn't know that was official info

[Moonbay]

And as Lemmy said, since the incident with the RotB wasn't known at the time of IV--there's no way to have Shield Runes.

I didn't say that

I was just correcting son_michael.

Actually, it was my error. It was Matilda who said it. I scrolled too fast when I double-checked. It happens when I'm tired.

But, let me clarfify what I meant about the RotB. Not too many people in the Island Nations knew about the RotB since it was on the other side of the world. If I remember the legend, the True Runes were Scattered when Shield and Sword broke--weren't they?

And the True Runes only seem to gain their 4th level power during certain times in history--when 108 Stars of Destiny are gathered to give the bearer their strength. So, yes, others may have held the Rune, but it wasn't until the time of Riou and Jowy when the Runes would gain their highest powers--and then spawn lesser versions of themselves.

[demon eye]

I'm trying to figure out the relevance of the True Runes gaining their 4th level spell from a mortal and how that would effect the birth of lower tier runes. The elemental lower tier runes have been around since Suikoden 1 and we never even saw the True Elemental Runes until Suikoden 3.

So, I'm just wondering how that is a factor. And certainly, the distance between where the True Runes are held and where their lower tier versions are should not make a difference or we wouldn't see Pale Gate Runes scattered all over the Grasslands..not to mention we have never seen the last level Gate Rune spell.

I simply think it's just based on the character of the True Runes. Some spawn lower tier versions at a more frequent rate than others and obviously some don't spawn any at all. It's more than likely the result of a hierarchy between the True Runes.

[Wraith]

So--Perhaps since the Soul Eater was hidden for such a long time--there were no Darkness Runes born from it. It's also possible that the Rune doesn't spawn anything until it hits it final level (like Materia in FFVII). That's why we don't see them in IV.

Don't think it works like this.There is actually no clarification on how Runes are found.Though I doubt they are mind after they HAVE to be "farmed" from somewhere.Anyway the Darkness RUne is VERY rare and has to have been into existence ever since the begining of time though they might have all been found by Harmonia or anyone for that matter.They might even have been very common.They might have been SO common that they became rare because all the runes were all found and soled(sp?).

[Eroschilles]

I was under the impression that both the Ressurection rune and the Darkness rune were born from the Soul Eater. It being the Rune of Life and Death.

What exactly produced those sword runes from S3 that increased elemental powers? Are those spawned off the elemental runes or the Black Sword rune? Or are they just man-made runes?

How are the runes in rune shop obtained? Are they produce or refined by shop propreiters or are they simply found and sold there? Since there are some man-made runes, we know they can be made. But how are runes like the lower elemental ones obtained?

It could be that they are made by humans in resemblance of the True Runes they stem off. And the reason why some runes aren't in some games is because they aren't in demand or because the local rune producers don't have the rune to emulate off. There are no shield runes in the Island Nations because the Bright Shield rune is unheard of there.

And the reason why the elemental runes are every where before the time of S3 is that those five runes became known at an earlier time worldwide and people made them or are popular enough that they are produced in the area of their origin (possibly the Grasslands) and shipped off to the runeshops.

The Darkness and Ressurection runes wouldn't be made until after the first time the Soul Eater was used in a major war. And the first time we know of that happening is in the Island Nations. So that's why they weren't in S4.

They should have had at least heard of Darkness and Ressurection runes in the Grasslands though. Being close to the Dunan area and Tinto, which was over-run by the undead at one point, they would want runes that could kill the already killed unless they thought that the undead problem was fully taken care of. So, I would imagine that the poeple of the Grasslands had no demand for those runs or were unable to get ahold of them. They might have had more interest in runes that would be effective against living foes since there was a state of near-constant war between Zexen and the clans of the Grasslands. The Grasslanders would be interested more in runes regarding nature and elements anyways, since they are a more tribal group.

[Wraith]

I was under the impression that both the Ressurection rune and the Darkness rune were born from the Soul Eater. It being the Rune of Life and Death.

I think the Ressurection rune is born from the Night Rune.

What exactly produced those sword runes from S3 that increased elemental powers? Are those spawned off the elemental runes or the Black Sword rune? Or are they just man-made runes?

Probably from the elemental Runes.

How are the runes in rune shop obtained? Are they produce or refined by shop propreiters or are they simply found and sold there? Since there are some man-made runes, we know they can be made. But how are runes like the lower elemental ones obtained?

no one knows.

It could be that they are made by humans in resemblance of the True Runes they stem off. And the reason why some runes aren't in some games is because they aren't in demand or because the local rune producers don't have the rune to emulate off. There are no shield runes in the Island Nations because the Bright Shield rune is unheard of there.

I doubt that the fact that they ahvn't heard about the BSR has any relevance on the rune market. I think localization of rune 'mines' (I call them mines but no one actually knows where they get them from so..). and transportation to the Island Nation might just not have been profitable. Maybe the developers were just stupid.

The Darkness and Ressurection runes wouldn't be made until after the first time the Soul Eater was used in a major war. And the first time we know of that happening is in the Island Nations. So that's why they weren't in S4.

Well the Ressurection rune was in S1 and the Darkness wasn't. So its not that.

[Angelis_Taleria]

The Sword Runes in S3 were to replace the rune pieces you could add to your weapon from earlier games.

[Eroschilles]

The Darkness and Ressurection runes wouldn't be made until after the first time the Soul Eater was used in a major war. And the first time we know of that happening is in the Island Nations. So that's why they weren't in S4.

Well the Ressurection rune was in S1 and the Darkness wasn't. So its not that.

It's possible that the Darkness rune was a later development after the leader of the Liberation Army had the Soul Eater. Or there could have been localization issues with the Darkness rune in the Toran area.

I believe that the Ressurection rune stems from the Soul Eater and not the Night rune because of it's name and its spells. The reason its spells kills the undead well is because it gives life, which is kind-of the opposite of being undead. It's also has a spell that raises 'dead' teammates. And I think it has a healing spell as well.

I might not even sure if the Night rune is a true rune itself or something else entirely. I was under the impression that all true runes were equal in power, but if the Night rune governs things of the night, like vampires, it would be more powerful than the Cresent Moon rune.