IF the suikoden world had an all out war?

Questions about the locations mentioned in the series; and those about the backstory not seen in the games.
xXSqualleoNXx
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Post by xXSqualleoNXx »

Yuber never did Pick the losing country. He actually sided with strong countries. He did fought with Both Highland and Luc (technically a Bishop of Harmonia). He only lost because the Hero is supposed to win. :P Anyway, it's really not easy to say who Yuber would side with. He seems to have been summoned all the times he appeared, so we don't know who he would fight with if given a "real" choice.
Hmm...
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jeane is the coolest char
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Post by jeane is the coolest char »

My guess is he would pick a country where his actions increase the overall chaos the highest.
i have bad grammer >.<
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Judgement of Lorelai
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Post by Judgement of Lorelai »

Judgement of Lorelai wrote:
Harmonia will take Higheast which is likely because it's its closest neighbor.

Vincent of Scarlet Moon wrote:
Grasslands have closer settlements to Harmonia than Higheast.
Harmonia is due north of Higheast.
Judgement of Lorelai wrote:
Yes, minimal troops in Dunan because they shifted troops to defend Harmonia-Higheast.. 3/4 of Toran's Army gathered in Higheast and 1/4 on Kasim's.. While Harmonia have 1/2 of it's army on to engage Toran-Higheast.. 1/4 to Grasslands and and the remnants of the Western Campaign.. Also some of Sonya's Navy stationed in Dunan Lake.. I don't know who'll win in this case..
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Viki
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Post by Viki »

I think if all of the countries would fight each other, that would be the last game of all the suikos. We can't say anything right Know coz many countries aren't involved yet. Though don't forget that :

The Queendom of Falena have gladiators, knights and asassins.
The Nameless countries are thought to be Sophisticated.
There's the confusion behind Viki's Homeland.

I think that if a country would win it would be Dunan with Toran
This is because besides of having ninjas and soldiers and such they both have good Strategists. Then the Dunan would fight the Toran and with that well one of themwill win. My guess is Dunan.

Then there's another thing that made me curious, won't there be those 27 true rune hoders in the scene?
I mean they will fight each other. And don't forget that the Rune of Beginning grants peace. And this might effect the war.
But it doesn't affect the Souvreign rune ........ oooooooooh this is so complicating.
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True Wind Bearer
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Post by True Wind Bearer »

Id wrote:Yuber would just pick a losing country and then flee at the last battle.
I hope your being sarcastic with this, truly I do.
Yuber would certainly not pick the losing side, he would choose the most powerful counry and side with them, if this country did lose, he would most probably escape in the final battle, but during his time with this counrty (preferably Harmonia, I think is the most powerful) he would cause maximum chaos.
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Id
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Post by Id »

I meant that he always is on the side that loses.

And i don't recall maximum chaos. He didn't do anything until the end of Suikoden 1, and in Suikoden 2 it was Luca killing every one. Yuber just summoned a bone dragon and then disapeared until the ast battle where he fled again.

In suikoden 3 he just slunk around and then got beat up by your party twice.
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Re: IF the suikoden world had an all out war?

Post by Yubers-Apprentice »

jeane is the coolest char wrote:which country would most likely win? (i know this is kind of a stupid question because we don't know about ALL the countries yet)
Harmonia they are the most powerful country in Suikoden it's just they are always unfortunate enough to fight the good guys who always have a True Rune.
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Hash
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Post by Hash »

If this were a normal war, Harmonia would win hands down. But if True Runes are involved, who knows? Any True Rune bearer could unleash its power against the enemy country, going for mass-destruction. Who would guess the winner in that scenario?
It's like an all-out nuclear war in real world. In the end, there'll be no winners. Only a devastated wasteland without life on it.
jonathan_priest
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War...

Post by jonathan_priest »

Heh...this is a great topic and I love discussions like this. Let's see. It's a tough call so I'll work on various senerios and see how it turns out in this discussion. Let's start with Suiko III first.

First thing I must say, Zexen is probably the single most pathetic country on the continent. They boast their knights but I seriously think the Matilda knights would slaughter them. That being said, I see the Zexen's intending to expand their land, primarily by invading the Outlands to the North and the Grasslands. I think Zexen would easily conquer Budehuc Castle which would give them a strong foothold into Grasslands, seeing as how "supposedly" the castle is between both lands. The key to this war, in my opinion, is the Grasslands. Abundant vegitation and supplies, whichever country can take it would have a strong stance for victory.

Of course, conquering the Grassland's won't be that easy. Now, Safir is gone, so that leaves only five major clans and the smaller tribes like Hallec's tribe and whatever...but what you have to realize is, as a barbarian nation, you'll be fighting a guerilla war. Obvously, the Karian can would be difficult to conquer, but the real threat is the Lizard Clan with their highway network. Depending on how far the highways go, they could effectively flank whole divisions. Of course, Grasslands can't win, not with Harmonia, Tinto, Zexen and Dunan bordering them, and seeing as how quickly Harmonia invaded and pushed them back to Brass Castle, its safe to assume they lack any real organization or leadership.

Grasslands falls first, with Zexen conquering Budehuc, Tinto taking Karyian village only to have Dunan push them out and Harmonia taking Chrisha and Duck Village. Depending on the situation, the Lizard clan could essentially form a strong offensive using their highways and acting in the same way as the French Resistence in WWII, but that would prove useless. I'll give the Great Hollow to Zexen as well, despite how much I dislike them.

As for the south, Faleena would take the Island Federation with little trouble no matter how many giant ships the federation has. So, the federation is scrapped, yet now you have Kooluk and Toran to contend with. I don't see Kooluk being a threat, I thought they were pretty pathetic not formulating any counter offensive in SIV, though give them the benefit of the doubt as 150 have past, maybe their tactics have improved. So, I would have to assume that Kooluk would essentially fight a defensive war, mainly because they can't beat Faleena and would probably hope to slide under the radar. It obviously wouldn't work and Kooluk would fall for two reasons, Faleena's superior numbers and they've already gained the island nations and have acquired resources to expand their territory. So, Kooluk is gone.

Now, here's where it gets trickier. Because as great an admiral as Sonya is, I don't think they'd have the ships to fend off Faleena. Even if they did and could push back the offensive, it would take a great deal of time and resources to conquer and hold the island nations let alone plan an offensive against Faleena itself. Their best bet is merely to retreat back into their land, let Faleena invade and fight them there...because I'd give Toran the benefit on land, considering you have the Warriors Village to lead the offensive in the southern territory. Either way, it would be a difficult battle and Toran would have to push Faleena back while fortifying their northern border.

Now, back to the North, Zexen, in their greed, moves to conquer the Outlands and overextends their limits, leaving them open for Dunan to retake Budehuc castle and effectively split the Zexen army in half, seperated between the Outlands and Zexen, the knights would have to fight the Matilda Knights with only half their force, the Outlands are taken by Dunan and weakened...Zexen soon falls to Harmonia which would have moved further into the former Grasslands and claim the Zexen Federation.

Tinto is in a world of trouble but really not in a bad position. Being a small country wanting more land, they'd want to conquer some of the territory left by Harmonia in the former Grasslands but really wouldn't want to draw attention to themselves...though I also see Tinto as sort of a Switzerland. Not that they're neutral, but damn if you can conquer a country surrounded by mountains. Gustov is also oportunistic as hell, so I see him striking an alliance with Dunan, as they were former allies. That's the only way they'd survive.

Back to the south. Depending on the tactics used, I would predict that Toran would use their navy to circle Faleena and attack them from the sea while the Warriors Village held off the invading forces. This would basically break Faleena's back, as the retreating military would have no where to go. However, Lepant is not a foolish man and rather than exhaust his military against Faleena, I see him fortifying the south and turning his attention to Dunan and Harmonia the only two countries left.

Now it comes to a position of leadership and tactics. I personally see Lepant as the strongest leader, Teresa never seemed to have the will to see the war through and Hikusaak (sp?) bears the Circle Rune, a symbol of never changing...so I think he'd be predictible. But you also have to look at the tacticians as well. Harmonia would have Albert, Dunan would have Klaus (I see Shu sitting this out as he was hard pressed to fight the High East Rebellion) and Apple in Toran.

Albert, unlike any other Silverberg, would mostly look to the condition of the war and tip the scales to better his own position, so if things go bad for Harmonia, I see him working against them...that means Klaus is probably the best straight strategist of the three. Now, we'd have to pair up individual armies at this point since we're at a three way stale mate.

I think the Ninja's of Rokakku could basically take out the Howling Voice Guild if needed, but that could be a stretch and probably difficult. I also see the Dragon Knights kicking the crap out of the Mantor Riders of Le Buque. So Le Buque falls and the HVG is down. However, the Matilda knights and the army of Muse would begin an invasion into northern Toran. It'd see Kwanda, the Iron Wall having to defend that post while Hauser invaded. I can't see Toran taking much of an offensive as the Badlands are between Toran and Dunan. Also, Ridley would lead the armies of Two Rivers, South Window and Greenhill against Harmonia. Now, Dunan would have slightly overextended themselves having taken the Outlands so they'd be defending that area with minimum efficiency as they'd want to consolidate their forces.

Meanwhile, Harmonia would have taken Budehuc from Dunan (which has now changed hands three times) and would use that as a central point and outpost for their invasion force. I don't see them using the same tricke as the High East Rebellion, but now that they are at war, their military is stronger than either Dunan or Tinto. The wild card in this would be Toran's south east region. The elves, kolbolds and Dwarves. If they chose to fight with Toran, then Toran could prove formidable, if not, then Toran would fall.

Assuming they do, Toran would more than likely turn their attention to Dunan first. You'd want to take the weaker army while your still strong rather than exhaust your troops on a superior opponent. Toran would probably push as far into Dunan as North Window before being haulted. Now, assuming that Lepant has recommishioned the Armored Calvary, this is still now a sure thing as Dunan, like Torna, both have Fire Spears. Meanwhile, I think the Dragon Knights would move into Harmonia along with Kasim's troops, so now Harmonia is fighting a two front war, but with superior troops. However, Harmonia also has most of the Grasslands and Zexen territories. They'd secure the southern portion and focus on Dunan. Tinto would switch sides as Dunan is now losing. Dunan falls, with Toran taking South Window, North Window, Muse, Matilda and the High East while Harmonia takes Two Rivers, Tinto and the Outlands.

Harmonia has the obvious advantage however as Vinay del Zexay is an open port. Using the navy, they circle around the continent while the main force attacks Toran head on. The naval blockade would hold for a while, but would eventually fall as the navy was exhausted from battling Faleena. Harmonia invades from the south while attacking from the North, Toran is overwhelmed and falls. It's only a matter of time before Harmonai defeats the weakend Faleena forces.

Winner: Harmonia.

Edit: Oops, my mistake. For some reason I always want to think Harmonia is in the West and not the east. Anyway, the outcome is still the same. Harmonia wins
Last edited by jonathan_priest on Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fundertaker
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Post by Fundertaker »

Yeah, my first post :!:
If this all-out war would happen, the true winner would be the underworld (or whatever world do the souls of the dead go).
Now, talkin military, we're almost all assuming that almost all countries would have an attacking position. However, I think that all the small countries would ally themselves against Harmonia (I think the rulers are not so stupid and overconfident to not do so). then a 1st fase will occur: Harmonia vs The "World". If Harmonia wins, the war is over, If not, the 2nd fase will occur, with all countries against themselves, and there I think that Falena would have an HUGE advantage (they can wait until the opponents are tired from battle and strike them with one swoop move)
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Post by Meruhesae »

First, I don't see why Harmonia would be the big victors in a world war, since in recent years, they haven't even been able to win any minor wars. They attempted to take over the Grasslands, helped Highland in the Unification Wars, participated in the Higheast Rebellion, and attempted to take over the Grasslands AGAIN, and still got their arses kicked every single time. Not a very good track record, is it? Also, I don't see the Grasslands falling to Tinto very easily, and I doubt Dunan would try to invade them at all. Why? Mainly, beacuse at the end of SIII Lucia moved to Dunan to work for Karaya's future--she is already acquainted with Teresa Wisemail and because of this I don't think Dunan would support Tinto in a takeover of the Grasslands.

Also, if Harmonia did try to take over the Grasslands again, Zexen would most probably try to ally with them like they did before. If they had Dunan helping them out too, Harmonia would most likely be opposing a group of brilliant strategists: Salome, Klaus, and possibly Shu. Caesar and Apple may or may not be there as well. Also, the fact that the Karayan and Zexen leaders possess True Runes is not something to be taken lightly.

I am not going to speculate on Falena because we just don't know enough about that country yet, but I don't think I'd underestimate the Island Federation. 150+ years have passed since it was founded, I think they could only have gotten stronger in that time. Razril and Obel have decent armies, and I would imagine that they probably do a lot of trading with Falena--I don't really see any reason why the Queendom would attack them.
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Post by Jowy Atreides »

Firstly, Harmonia only used a portion of their entire army in all those conflicts you mentioned. If prompted, I'm sure they'd move out the entire army, but I'm sure it'd take a lot of money on their side to support such a large movement, hence why you've never seen their full fighting force up until now.

Also, the point of an all-out war is that there are no alliances. If Zexen allied with the Grasslands on the grounds that Harmonia is invading, what stops anybody from allying and just utilizing one massive allied force against Harmonia?
Last edited by Jowy Atreides on Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by silverwolf »

Incase of a World War...
This is my idea for the Island Nation and Grasslands
Strategy of Island Nation Federation:
I dont think Island Nation would take the offensive.... in case of a naval battle they could outmanuever their opponents bec of their mastery in the high seas, they would finish the enemy b4 they could land their troops... but if all goes wrong, they could gather their remaining strength in a ridged island lets say... Na-Nal Island, there is only one way entering the island and its the port... they could make a bottle neck in the entrance and slay all of the enemy, in this situation strategy is not needed, its just a survival fight, Island Nation army could just fight until the enemy ran out of supplies or ran out of troops. But if the attacking force is thrice the size of the garrisoned forces in the Obel, Island soldiers wont last long their lines will falter.

Chances of Island Federation Army Winning the All Out War = 2%
But if the Hero4 would come back and help The Island Nations........

Strategy of Grasslands and Zexen Federation
They would ally themselves and probably prepare for a defensive war. Hugo could protect the Grasslands borders near Harmonia and use the True Fire Rune like crazy, this would probably drain out his energy, but i think alot of Harmonian would be burn into hot crisp before theu could even lay their blade to a Grasslander. The Grassland Army then would pick of the surviving Harmonian Forces.
But if The True Fire Rune goes berserk again, Grasslands is Harmonia's easy prey
Meanwhile Chris would do the same, but if the True Water Rune goes berserk also...........

Chances of Grassland and Zexen Federation Alliance winning would be = 10%?

In an All-Out War numbers of troops will be a major factor... though back in The Dunan Unification War, their small force crippled Highland's army
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Post by son_michael »

The rop is officially in its forgiveness stage for the hero 4 correct

so what if hero 4 can continually use the rop without getting hurt{like when he was blowing up ships on the sea}

I would say that any war hero 4 fights in, he would be assured victory because

DAMMM!!!! THAT RUNE OF PUNISHMENT IS FRICKEN POWERFULL!!!!!!!!

entire harmonian armies gone.....


personally I dont think all true runes are the same, I dont think the other true runes have the kind of power the rune of punishment has

and if hero 4 masters it and can use it at will......
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