IF the suikoden world had an all out war?

[jeane is the coolest char]

which country would most likely win? (i know this is kind of a stupid question because we don't know about ALL the countries yet)

[Fists Of Protocol]

most likely Harmonia.

[Futagi]

Unless of course other countries formed alliances. Were Tir and Riou to join forces again and gather people under them again, they'd probably would be pretty formidable.

[WatcherZero]

Harmonia is the sole superpower, however they have really bad luck and are always being outmaneouvered and defeated. Plus they never seem to try overly hard to stop their decline, an area brekas away, they perhaps send a few troops to put up a weak resistance, Harmonias army is huge they could easily overwhelm more than they are doing.

[RageRune]

Proably Harmonia, but that's if they moblized most or all of thier troops into war.

[Eroschilles]

I assume that the Queendom of Faleena would be a formidable force to deal with since they seem to intimadate Harmonia into inaction. But of their actual military might, we know nothing.

Harmonia may not come out on top because they have been losing terriotory for a while now and haven't made any new significant invasions except for the one into the Grasslands which was unsuccessful. Harmonia may have a large, well-trained army, but they appear to get beaten rather easily by anyone with a True Rune.

But it's impossible to speculate on whom may come out on top in an all out war because as you said, we don't even know of all of the nations in the Suikoden world. But I would say the two big contenders would be the Queendom and Holy Harmonia.

[Fists Of Protocol]

Harmonia, at least in recent years seems to be a defensive country. They only attack or get involved when provoked....

They only got involved in the Dunan war cuz Highland contacted them...and even then, they only sent one unit and when they got blown away they tayed out.

They only got involed in the Grasslands cuz Luc manipulated them and that they heard about the return of the flame champion(which was Geddoe's job at the start)

Dunno much about the Higheast Rebellion but it seems to be Harmonia isn't actively pursuing military conflicts at the current time.

[The Black Knight]

I think Harmonia but if all the countries in the suiko world joined together except Harmonia then it would be an interesting war.

[Judgement of Lorelai]

hey, why Toran Republic be a formidable nation? It may be a peaceful country but they have lots of arsenal to send..

Teo's Armored Cavalry (if they still exist)
Silver Armored Cavalry (if they still exist)
Maximillian Knights
Dragon Knights (carpet bombers)
Antoinette
Man-eating Spores
Windfire Cannon (artillery)
Burning Mirror (artillery)
Fire Spear (Pikemen)
Elves as archer units
Juppo's robots (infantry)
Silverberg Family (tactics)
Warrior's Village (infantry)
6 Great Generals (Commanders)
Rokakku Ninjas (Assassination, Spying, Scouting)
Crowley the Arch Magi (Magic unit)
Sonya Shullen's Naval Fleet (Naval unit)

And don't forget, the Narcissts !!

No True Runes yet to be involved except for Dragon Rune.. I just mean like when the Flame Champ in 1st Fire Bringer War unleashed True Fire Rune in large-scale battle..

Hope I didn't miss something..

[the_green_lamp]

hey, i'm curious about something else too I guess you could say i'm a Suikoden noob:D I've beaten all the games, (beaten II like 4 times ), and I've just started getting into the history. Have we EVER seen any part of the Sucession Wars? I keep seeing it mentioned but i dont really recognize it

[Agremsep]

In my opinion, the Dunan and Toran Republic will come out tops in all competition. But we would have to assume that both of them will ally (they did in Suikoden 2) and also assume that timeline isn't a factor here because some people are dead.

Why the Dunan-Toran Alliance?
They have :
The 5 or 6 Great Generals and their troops. (They are very experienced)
Rokkaku Ninjas
Dragon Knights
Dwarves (Look at their arsenals - Burning Mirror, Whirlwind Cannon, etc)
Elves as archers
Kobolds
Wingers
Matilda Knights
Sharazade Naval Fleet

Ok, now the individuals that can turn the tides :
Mathiu Silverburg
Leon Silverburg
Shu
Tir
Riou
Jowy
Mazus
Crowley
etc etc

[Vincent of Scarlet Moon]

If we assume no alliances and that for some reason it's an all-out war needing one surviving nation and if we pick the year as, say, 480. Well, let's see...

Dunan/Toran would probably deal with their neighbours first, seeing as there's the Badlands seperating them. It'd be foolish to waste resources traversing that when you have other nations wanting to kill you right off your border.

The odds are after humilation against the Zexen/Grasslands Alliance and the failure of the Higheast rebellion then Harmonia will build up their forces before simply swarming the Grasslands and then the Zexen Confederacy. Meanwhile, Dunan would easily take the Tinto Republic.

Down south, Toran would have little trouble with the Southlands and Kanakan. Kooluk would similary fall but this would take a bit longer. (for this I'm essentially "freezing" the southern region in the Suikoden IV time.)

Meanwhile, despite what may be considered a "home advantage" on the ocean, the Island Nations Federation and the Dukedom of Gaien would most likely be picked off by the Queendom of Falena.

So already, we're down to four. Harmonia, Dunan, Toran and Falena.

Making a landing in the occupied southern lands would be difficult and so I'd expect a Falena invasion to be long and drawn out. With Falena being fended off eventually or making a slow crawl along Toran.

Meanwhile, Dunan and Harmonia would now be clashing in two areas, Higheast and the Grasslands. With the more easily divisble nature of Dunan, in my view, Dunan would fall. But very slowly.

By now, I'll assume that Two River and Higheast province have fallen, while exhausted Toranese troops have been forced to retreat back north to the Republic.

Now here's the real meat.

Greenhill and South Window would strike at occupied Two River while occupied Higheast would presumably attack East Muse first which would fall. This means that South Window would have to divide it's forces in case of an attack on Raddat. With this, the Dunan counter attack would fail, ironically leaving South Window open to a pincer attack, leaving south Dunan under Harmonian control. With Greenhill, West Muse and Matilda essentially surrounded, Dunan would most likely eventually fall.

Back south, the Falena advance would most likely be halted at Lorimar or Gouran, whichever route the Queendom decided to progress upon. After this there's no real reason why Toran can't push back the exhausted Falena forces, forcing them back to the Island Nations. From there on, a reasonably planned Toran advancement should be able to take the Federation, leaving Falena down south. Probably eventually falling after a protracted invasion marked by fighting from street to street and the like.

Which means we only have two now: the Holy Kingdom of Harmonia and the Toran Republic. The main factor here is that the Toran government is much nearer to Harmonia territory than vice-versa so with a swift souhtern attack from the Great Sea on Arlus, the Toran government would collapse and from there it'd be a matter of taking out Toran lands one piece at a time.

Any rebellion stemming from the collapse would easily be put down by Harmonia, after all, they'd only be dealing with remnants of defeated armies by this point.

So the winner: Holy Kingdom of Harmonia.

[Agremsep]

Even if it is an all out war which only leaves 1 surviving nation, I think the most logical action is that the smaller nations ally themselves against a big boy like Harmonia.

No nations would be stupid enough to fight each other while the Harmonia slowly takes them out piece by piece. They will most probably opt for an alliance to take out Harmonia first. After that, they would only have an all-out war.

So the winner : Dunan or Toran : They would stay as allies until the end. They share the same goal for peace and have the willingness to co-exist. But seeing that it is stated that it has to be an all out war with only 1 survivor, they break their alliances and fight it out.

[Vincent of Scarlet Moon]

Well, the no alliance condition in my scenario is a tad more realistic than the "everyone is alive" condition in yours.

But even with that it's not much good. Most nations are too far away to contribute much to an alliance effort, only Dunan and the Grasslands/Zexen Alliance could strike together and if Harmonia is smart enough to swarm the Grasslands a la my scenario then that leaves Dunan. So while Dunan falls piece by piece in this scenario, Toran will bolster it's northern forces and advance to South Window (which will take months, seeing as they have to cross the Badlands) to help their Dunan allies. Two River, Higheast et al will still fall. This means an extended South Window campaign but unless Toran are planning to empty the country of all it's forces, then South Window and thus Dunan would eventually fall.

Even if the alliance doesn't collapse by now (and it should after somewhere like Dunan falls) then after making their way to Senan, they'd be smart to strike east at Arlus. Again, as in my scenario collapsing the Toran government instantly. From there on, Harmonia can easily get reinforcements and the like from the eastern Great Sea rather than worrying about the Badlands. The Toran provinces would fall piece by piece even with Kooluk reinforcments to bolster demoralised defenses.

So this leaves the alliance with Kooluk, the Island Nation Federation and the Queendom of Falena as well as the smaller places like the Southlands and Kanakan. South Toran would fall, and quite quickly too, Kooluk forces being overextended aiding Toran and the smaller nations not being able to put up a real defense against Harmonia. And now we're left with the Federation and Falena.

If the Federation is foolish enough to continue at this point, they'd still lose, they don't have a multitude of forces, no rune cannons or the like so it's simply another Grasslands swarm.

Falena forces in the area would be unable to stop this flow, but they could slow it down to an island-by-island crawl. However, small island nations can only support a small number of allied troops.

So that's Harmonia and Falena at the end this time. Falena could repel attacks from Harmonia, I dare say, with the Holy Kingdom being vastly over-extended but there's not much room for Falena to push Harmonia all the back north to their old borders.

So even with a stalemate, Harmonia could be judged the winners. And even if we refuse to allow that, the Toran scenario happens again, Falena's capital is much closer to Harmonian land than vice-versa. A concentrated attack on the centre of government would yield the desired results.

[Agremsep]

Well from your senario, Harmonia would be obvious winners. Poor Dunan and Toran.

But certainly you wouldn't expect Toran or Dunan to fall that easily. I do not know about the other nations because we haven't got enough information on them but certainly we are convinced that Toran and Dunan are well established nations. Eventhough outnumbered, I am sure their strategists would do something and wouldn't let the republic falls that easily.

=.=" Nonetheless, Harmonia looks more likely to win.