the strongest rune

jowy blight · Post by **jowy blight** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:32 am

The gate rune is a true rune with apower to connest worlds.
Rune of the Beginning is A True Rune with power to judge war.
what is the strongest rune

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:22 am

There is no "strongest" rune. They all are equal in power and all are necessary for the stability of the SuikoWorld. One True Rune has no dominance over another. But, for speculation purposes only, I suggest that there exist a sort of status or class for each True Rune that has bearing on each True Rune's individual goals.

Shirofan · Post by **Shirofan** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:56 am

The relative strengths of the True Runes is dependant entirely upon context: some scenarios favour some runes while they perform badly in others, method of usage also comes into play which is determined by the intelligence and cunning of the bearer.

For example if the bearers of the True Fire and Sovereign Rune lined up for battle then the True Fire Rune would be totally ineffective at direct attacks against the Sovereign Rune bearer due to the latter's magic block effect; however we do not know if the Sovereign Rune has offensive abilities so it may come down to physical combat between the bearers.

Thus a more cunning bearer of the True Fire Rune may not attack the Sovereign bearer directly but create fires that impede his progress and wear him down before the physical battle to come.

This may be used to come to the conclusion that they are of equal strengths but it does depend on situation as if we introduce a third True Rune into the mix it results in one sided battles:

The Gate Rune seems to have weaker direct offensive powers than the True Fire Rune so its primary attack would have to be through the monsters it summons; however the True Fire is an area attack rune of high power so it could destroy any opposition summoned fairly easily.

However with a bit of foresight the Gate Rune could defeat the bearer of the Sovereign Rune because it has an indirect attack and would overwhelm him with force of numbers.

You cannot say that the True Fire Rune is stronger than the Rune of the Gate which is stronger than the Sovereign Rune, so by default the True Fire must be stronger than the Sovereign Rune as we know that isn't the case.

Without further details being disclosed it should be assumed that all True Runes are equal in power levels; but that does not mean that all battles between bearers will result in a stalemate, that depends more on the situation, the runes and the bearers involved; any individual results thus obtained could not be used to convey a heirarchy in any place.

However the first post suggests this is a versus topic about two specific runes, one of which we have next to no details about in its true form. As a result no-one can give you a coherent answer even if that sort of topic was allowed on these forums. But I will leave this topic open for people to discuss the more general case.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:42 am

I agree wholeheartedly with Shirofan. But, we must also hold into account that it seems that all True Runes have the ability to form an incarnation of itself (not confirmed, but based on at least Suikoden 1-3, we see this as true). Each True Rune has there inherent strengths, but we can't negate the fact that they probably have incarnations of themselves which will ultimately even the playing field. But, ultimately, in one-on-one battle the bearers make the difference..hence Luc's defeat eventhough he possessed the powers of all 5 Elemental True Runes, Barbarossa's defeat at the hands of the Soul Eater, Riou's defeat of the Beast Rune..etcetera etcetera.

Post by **Vextor** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:07 am

technically, the Golden Hydra isn't an "incranation" of the Sovereign Rune, but simply one of the powers of the rune. It allows the bearer to transform into a golden hydra. Thus, the golden hydra you fight in Suikoden 1 is Barbarossa transformed.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:25 am

I stand corrected.

Occam Arkitect · Post by **Occam Arkitect** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:25 am

So are we fighting *spoiler,maybe* Luc in S3's end? I know it's not him "transformed", but just to be sure...

koriand'r · Post by **koriand'r** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 4:49 pm

Though the runes are apprently equal, souleater does seem to have given some special credit as it seems to be the only rune leknaat to a degree is fearful off as she tells Tir never to use its true power and it is the only rune so far that has been involved in more plots than any other.

*possible spoiler*

(suikoden I, Suikoden II sub quest and suikoden IV sub quest) In fact in S4 it seems that even the sindar (or we think its the sindar as they are commented by leknaat to be from the eternal city) desire the rune.

Post by **Vextor** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 8:10 pm

Leknaat told Tir to not use his rune because it would mean he would lose his loved ones. It wasn't out of fear or anything, Leknaat was merely trying to save Tir some grief.

Also, the Sindar desire any true rune. The Rune of Life and Death is not "special."

koriand'r · Post by **koriand'r** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:12 pm

But at that stage in the game Tir had lost most of his loved ones that were taken by the souleater regardless with the exception of gremio. If leknaat wanted to save Tir grief she could had forewarned him of the rune's power's before it took away gremio and teo. Windy herself took an intrest in the rune as a tool of destruction for the last three centries. So if Leknaat is reluctant to see the rune's true power be used and that Windy does show the unquie value in it. (And its a concidence as well that the first rune true rune the sindar take happens to be the rune of life and death) And as far as we know the rune of life and death is the most sought true rune out of the others given that it pursued for over centuries, though there is no final evidence in saying there's a stronger rune, the souleater has been given the bigger attention then the other runes in the series.

Post by **Vextor** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:11 pm

The Souleater was only pursued by Windy. That is hardly "most sought after." She specifically wished to have the Souleater because she had nothing to lose if she did get that rune (no one is close to her). It fit her purposes the best.

Even the True Water Rune was sought after by both the Howling Voice Guild (ordered by Harmonia) and Luc. The Rune of Punishment is also pursued by a number of different factions (I can't go into detail).

koriand'r · Post by **koriand'r** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:56 pm

SARSadmin wrote:The Souleater was only pursued by Windy. That is hardly "most sought after."

I meant timewise, the souleater was hunted for over three centuries and was the most determined of searches so far and the one that was costed the most lives to an extent compared to harmonia's hunt for true runes. Though luc's hunt was equally determined but he was after a series of runes and not just one.

Post by **Vextor** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:05 pm

Not much life has been lost at all from Windy's search for the Souleater. We only know of one village that got wiped out, and otherwise Ted is the only casualty. Who else was a casualty of Windy's hunt for the souleater?

Compared to that, we have Harmonia that wiped out Geddoe's homeland for his True Thunder Rune as well as Queen's homeland for whatver rune they had. Harmonia waged war against Grassland for their runes as well. And as you mentioned, there is Luc who sought after the true elemental runes from Grassland.

The length of time Windy sought the souleater is irrelevant to the topic, because we know she had a specific reason why she needed souleater. Thus, it can't be used as proof that souleater must somehow be the "strongest rune."