The Rune of the Beginning

[demon eye]

So, Harukaze, you are stating that the True Wind Rune showed Luc a vision of fate and Order going ot of control because it serves Chaos, correct? So, basically you are stating that the True Wind Rune was giving Luc a vision in order to help him destroy it in hopes of opposing Order? I don't think the True Wind Rune would be willing to sacrifice itself or commit pseudo-suicide to further it's goals. That's if I'm correct in assuming that was what you were stating.

Referring to your statement about the Sword and Shield, I believe it's possible, based on what we know but then again we know little when it comes to True Runes.

[GoatLord]

As far as grouping the elemental runes, I think we'd do best to look at the effects of the rune's spells. The Bright Sheild has primarily healing and support, while the Black Sword has attack spells. Water and Earth runes are primarily healing and support runes, making them order. Fire and Lightning are entierly attack runes, making them chaos. Wind has a mix, but because of the vision it shows Luc, I think we can safely group it with order.

[Raww Le Klueze]

Doesn't work. Geddoe says he's seen fuzzy visions of the same thing from his True Lightning Rune, Luc says that the Flame Champion might have seen them. That means that they would be on the Order side if the vision has any meaning. The runes might just as well show the vision that is most probable.

[Hassie]

Is it entirely possible that the "27 true runes" didnt exist before the clash of sword and shield? If that being the case, perhaps the creation of the runes was from the destruction of the brothers. Perhaps every rune should, as some have said, have some chaos and some order. In this scenario, it would lead one to believe that all the runes have a part of shield and a part of sword in them. They dont necessarily need to be from one or another. The fact that they clashed and broke, perhaps created the runes upon their destruction.

In any event, i doubt anything can really be established with the current information. This argument can conceivably continue for 4-7 more suikoden games before anything is more concrete.

[Fliktor]

The True Runes were said to have been created due to the aftermath of the battle between Sword and Shield.

[Jowy Atreides]

Is it entirely possible that the "27 true runes" didnt exist before the clash of sword and shield? If that being the case, perhaps the creation of the runes was from the destruction of the brothers. Perhaps every rune should, as some have said, have some chaos and some order. In this scenario, it would lead one to believe that all the runes have a part of shield and a part of sword in them. They dont necessarily need to be from one or another. The fact that they clashed and broke, perhaps created the runes upon their destruction.

In any event, i doubt anything can really be established with the current information. This argument can conceivably continue for 4-7 more suikoden games before anything is more concrete.

Yes, people get so caught up in aligning the True Runes to even realize that Konami has never said that the True Runes even have alignments. I'm in doubt of such a thing, personally.

[demon eye]

The only thing that I have to say about whether or not the True Runes existed before or after the clash between the Sword and Shield is that the creation story states that the 27 Jewels were already embedded on both the Sword and Shield. Therefore, if we take the Creation Story as factual evidence then the 27 True Runes had to exist before the clash of the Sword and Shield.

[Fliktor]

Well it depends how you take to the creation myth itself. Whether you take it word for word and believe there actually was a giant battle between a large sword and a large shield, then fine.

But it's more than likely a metaphor about the creation of the world, and in that creation the 27 True Runes were created and fell to the land.