True Runes Cursed and Mastered Stages.

Questions about the locations mentioned in the series; and those about the backstory not seen in the games.
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veriaqa
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Re: True Runes Cursed and Mastered Stages.

Postby veriaqa » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:33 am

But Dark Punishment or Souleating rune or The Beginner rune have REAL curses. Curses that you can't avoid by just being strong enough or have the abiltiy to resist it. It does not matter how strong willed you are, or how capable you are the Dark Punishment will always suck your life force everytime you use it; and Souleating rune will always kill your closest one to powered itself; and the Beginner will always force you and your best friend to fight eachother to the death.

Those are REAL curses, not this wumbo jumbo about how strong willed you are to resist it, which is the perfect notion to Tempest rune.

So, some true runes do have REAL curse and some don't. That's my conclusion.
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sticky-runes
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Re: True Runes Cursed and Mastered Stages.

Postby sticky-runes » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:18 am

Can't you just use the names from the games?

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Re: True Runes Cursed and Mastered Stages.

Postby Wolkendrache » Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:16 pm

And please make clear who you're refering to. I can't see anyone in this thread mentioning "strong will" or "ability to resist". Seems you just made up that "wumbo jumbo".
By "real curse" you mean inevitable tragic directly caused by the true rune, and tragic from the perspective of the bearer, right? Other true runes seem to bring tragic in a more indirect way, but I don't like to call these something like "unreal curses". I mean all true runes are woven into a history full of tragic. Is the Flame Champion really leading a better life than Ted had? Who knows.
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veriaqa
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Re: True Runes Cursed and Mastered Stages.

Postby veriaqa » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:31 pm

Clearly I tried to refering to you. I'm sorry if I miss interpret your previous post about true runes similiarities with the One ring from LoTR lore. Which in my opinion we can compare the Tempest rune gave Luc visions to the One ring try to trick the bearer into wearing the ring so Sauron can find the ring. But the similiarities stop at that. We can't compare other true runes with real curse with the One ring. But again, I'm sorry if I miss interpret you.

I don't say that the bearers of true runes without any real curse are happier than the bearers of true runes with real curses. Clearly Luc's story is more sad and tragic than Lazlo. And Flame Champion's life is pretty hard compared to Riou. But that's not the point. We are talking about true runes and their curses, the fact that some bearers can handle the curse far better than the other doesnot matter.

That's my opinion on this: clearly some true runes are more special than other true runes; some more powerful than other; and some have curses some don't.

PS: yes I understand true runes are created equal, none are more powerful than the other. But we have to admit that Red Sun is much more powerful than say, Blue Moon. And without any real curse too. And with two special runes that are not only so much powerful by themselves (which made the bearer of those three runes basically hold 3 powerful runes) they can negate the drawback of Red Sun. Is that not special?
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sticky-runes
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Re: True Runes Cursed and Mastered Stages.

Postby sticky-runes » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:57 pm

FFS there is no Red Sun Rune, it's just called the Sun Rune. There is no Tempest Rune it's the True Wind Rune.

And Rune of Dark Punishment? What, as opposed to the Rune of Light Punishment? So the Rune of Dark Punishment absorbs your life force until you disintegrate and condemns you to psychological torment. What does the Rune of Light Punishment do? Summon a ruler to smack your knuckles and force you to drink tea without sugar for a couple of weeks?

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Pyriel
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Re: True Runes Cursed and Mastered Stages.

Postby Pyriel » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:13 pm

Fifty Shades of Graham Cray. He spent all of Suikoden IV chasing the wrong rune. The one he actually wanted would mostly just hit your tender bits with a riding crop in exchange for draining your dignity.

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Re: True Runes Cursed and Mastered Stages.

Postby Wolkendrache » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:14 pm

Veriaqa, I already got your point. Unfortunately you didn’t get mine. No problem, let me try again. As for the LotR comparison, I wasn’t comparing specific true rune properties or causes. I was speculating about the authors’ intention regarding true runes. I’m thinking that true runes symbolize power, and the authors are trying to tell us that power inevitably causes tragedy, not only abusing, even using it for the sake of actually trying to prevent tragedy.

The term “curse” is a matter of perspective. Every true rune that harms the host is considered cursed (even though only one is actually called “cursed”), and these are only a handful. What I’m arguing is that all true runes are “cursed” in a way, because everyone who becomes host is either immediately thrown into a story of tragedy, or gets the responsibility to prevent the rune from causing it. True Runes appear where they are needed. And when they’re needed, the situation is f#cked up. If you become host of the Soul Eater you know that some of your loved ones might die (not killed by the rune, but rather by your dragon broomstick). If you become host of the True Water Rune don’t forget that you’ll soon enough find yourself in a situation where you need to use it, probably a war that could kill your loved ones anyway. The Punishment Rune gradually drains the bearer’s life force, which is very merciful compared to the Blue Moon Rune which turns you into a mad vampire right away. Speaking of Blue Moon Rune, in the last hundreds of years it killed more loved ones than the so-called Cursed Rune. It has the potential to create a worldwide zombie apocalypse, while the Sun Rune (which you consider stronger), as its worst case scenario, would only turn Falena into ashes. Anyway, all True Runes are both a blessing and a curse; causing wars, ending wars, helpful in times of war, useless or absent in times of peace.

Of course some runes are more special and powerful than others, it just depends on what you’re planning to do. For example, if you want to make your queendom a warm and fertile land, some runes are more useful, while runes like the Soul Eater are useless pieces of crap. If you want a rune to conquer the world, then the Sun Rune is almost useless. If Tir and Joshua would exchange their runes I guess they would both lose power.
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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veriaqa
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Re: True Runes Cursed and Mastered Stages.

Postby veriaqa » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:40 pm

Okay I think I maybe get your point.

The problem is the thread is about the curse and the rune and their mastered state. Which logically, when a true rune enter its mastered state the curse is no longer applied to the bearer.

When Lazlo mastered the Dark Punishment the curse stoped, and the rune no longer draining his life when used. That makes him freely using the rune without any drawback anymore. This Lazlo achieved by suffering and actually almost cost his life.
While Red Sun mastered state can be achieved by bearing two other powerful runes. If you got the 3 runes at the same time or one after the other in a short time, the bearer wont feel the negative effect of Red Sun at all. No suffering, no death of a family member, no at all. And you are in controll of 3 most powerful rune in the whole Suikoverse. Yes, in my opinion Red Sun and its two protector runes (Red Dawn and Red Dusk) are overpowered to hell and back and very very suited to take over the world easily. Why Falenan royalty or Harmonian Hikusaak do not try that is anyone guess.
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Pen
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Re: True Runes Cursed and Mastered Stages.

Postby Pen » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:12 pm

sticky-runes wrote:FFS there is no Red Sun Rune, it's just called the Sun Rune. There is no Tempest Rune it's the True Wind Rune.

And Rune of Dark Punishment? What, as opposed to the Rune of Light Punishment? So the Rune of Dark Punishment absorbs your life force until you disintegrate and condemns you to psychological torment. What does the Rune of Light Punishment do? Summon a ruler to smack your knuckles and force you to drink tea without sugar for a couple of weeks?


Maybe he is using Japanese names, or names translated to his version.

If so, he won't be tecnically wrong.

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Pyriel
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Re: True Runes Cursed and Mastered Stages.

Postby Pyriel » Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:00 pm

The Japanese names mostly translate directly to what's in common use. I'm pretty sure veriaqa is part of our Indonesian contingent. I've only ever seen someone half-finish a translation of Suikoden III into their language, so it seems like people mostly make do with the English versions. There is a fair bit of, shall we say, creative and somewhat humorous leeway taken by the Indonesian fan base, but tacking on unnecessary modifiers for kicks is kind of a annoying. Why is it the Red Sun anyway? Is Falena on Krypton, or else behind the Iron Curtain?

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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: True Runes Cursed and Mastered Stages.

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:56 am

He's just being a pig-headed idiot because someone dared say Blue Moon Rune instead of Moon Rune.
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Pyriel
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Re: True Runes Cursed and Mastered Stages.

Postby Pyriel » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:09 am

If that's the case, it was two freaking years ago when I did that, and I was probably thinking of all the crap that is "Blue Moon" at the time. It's a little late to develop a running gag based on it.

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Re: True Runes Cursed and Mastered Stages.

Postby Wolkendrache » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:37 am

At least his focus on the running gag explains his lack of thought in substance and his rejection of viewing the topic from different angles.

As for “Blue Moon Rune”, I learned the term at suikosource (it’s still in use). According to Gensopedia it’s “Moon Rune” and “Blue Moon Village”. I guess that’s correct?
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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Pyriel
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Re: True Runes Cursed and Mastered Stages.

Postby Pyriel » Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:04 pm

Yeah, the name of the Rune in Japan is just "Moon", but it has been called "Blue Moon" before. The village name has a form of blue attached, and the curse on it is usually referred to the same way.

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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: True Runes Cursed and Mastered Stages.

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:11 pm

It's mostly called Moon Rune, but the Suikoden II 108 Stars Guide published by Konami calls it the Blue Moon Rune. There's also the Blue Moon Curse, the Blue Moon Village and Blue (Pale) Moon set which isn't a coincidence.

Veriaqa has been on a crusade for years refusing to accept that Blue Moon is an official term for it, and now he's trying to derail this topic into his fetish for it again cause his old topic was locked and all attempts to resurrect it have been deleted. You can see it here if you wish, but the matter is settled.

And should he persist in this tiresome idiocy he'll find it hard to post anything at all very soon.
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