how long true rune bearers can survive for when they lose...

Questions about the locations mentioned in the series; and those about the backstory not seen in the games.
Flufflez
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Re: how long true rune bearers can survive for when they los

Postby Flufflez » Tue May 31, 2011 12:57 pm

based on what we've seen in the games, you do not start to rapid age once you lose your true rune, you just start to age at a normal rate again and die. if you've had your true rune beyond your normal life expectancy (like geddoe or jimba or ted), the game implies that you don't have long to live, but never explains what this means. i interpret it as a couple of days, but i don't think anyone knows for sure. are the halves of the rune of beginning actually confirmed to not cause agelessness? i don't remember reading anything about this before. i know it has been confirmed that the star dragon sword does not cause agelessness, as it is not actually attached to anyone.

example of aging w/ rune:

25 yr old gets a true rune. has true rune for 25 years then it passes on. person is supposed to live to age 70. 20 years after passing on the rune they will die and have appearance of a 45 year old.

this is how i assume it works based on ted, jimba and geddoe not rapid aging when they lost their true runes. and ted aging normally when he gave up his true rune for a little while.

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Re: how long true rune bearers can survive for when they los

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Tue May 31, 2011 2:27 pm

how long do you think that someone like geddoe or jimba would live for after their runes where taken if jimba hadnt been killed or geddoe get his rune back?

There's no data available to suggest anything. Any number I throw out would be pure conjecture.

are the halves of the rune of beginning actually confirmed to not cause agelessness? i don't remember reading anything about this before.

Only about 999,999,999 times the past 11 years.

and ted aging normally when he gave up his true rune for a little while.

The only point he gave up his Rune was on the Fog Ship which also causes agelessness. People who get a True Rune at a young age aren't given the ageless effect till they mature.
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Re: how long true rune bearers can survive for when they los

Postby Flufflez » Tue May 31, 2011 11:54 pm

at no point in the fog ship dialogue does it say that the eternal life it grants causes you to not age

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Re: how long true rune bearers can survive for when they los

Postby Antimatzist » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:19 am

Flufflez wrote:at no point in the fog ship dialogue does it say that the eternal life it grants causes you to not age

Well Ted doesn't look like a 150 old man so I'd say it grants agelessness. Also I remember a line which says so. But I haven't played it for some time, so I might be wrong.

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Re: how long true rune bearers can survive for when they los

Postby gilgamesh31 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:33 am

It might not say it in the dialogue but since Ted has been a 'guest' on the Fog ship for around 150 years and he hasnt aged we can surmise that he didnt age without his rune.

About Riou and Jowy not not ageing: I thought they wouldnt age for years myself, because of Leknaat and Windys halves of the gate rune granting them agelessness but apparantly they are completly different as the Rune of Beggining was broken in half by itself while the Gate rune was halfed using somekind of technique. So we wouldnt see Jowy and Riou, say after suikoden III looking the same as they did in II.
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Re: how long true rune bearers can survive for when they los

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:24 am

Flufflez wrote:at no point in the fog ship dialogue does it say that the eternal life it grants causes you to not age

Maybe not, but a little logical deduction goes a long way.

Ted is shown to already be an adult when he encounters the Fog Ship, considering he has no apparent change he either spent a rather short time on the ship or the ship grants agelessness or is not affected by the passage of time at all.

Not to mention that deal would really suck around your 100th year with arthritis, hearing loss and what-not. Not to mention around your 1000th year if you had to age.
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Re: how long true rune bearers can survive for when they los

Postby DoReMi_Vampire » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:33 am

Raww Le Klueze wrote:Ted had his for the better part of 300 years, he survives a couple of years without it from when he gives it to Tir and meet again at Seek Valley, but he also says that he's being kept alive by Windy's magic so he might have already died if not for her.


I'm not sure if you can draw any certain conclusions from that. Ted may have refered to his body rapidly growing old and that Windy was keeping him from this fate. But he could also be refering to the fact that Windy had to use magic to keep him alive due to the mortal wounds he recieved during their battle, thereby meaning he was already dying before giving up the Soul Eater.
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Re: how long true rune bearers can survive for when they los

Postby Flufflez » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:27 am

gilgamesh31 wrote:It might not say it in the dialogue but since Ted has been a 'guest' on the Fog ship for around 150 years and he hasnt aged we can surmise that he didnt age without his rune.



i don't remember anything that said he spent all 150 years on the fog ship. he would've had to go from getting the rune immediately to the fog ship for that to make sense actually.

Raww Le Klueze wrote:
Flufflez wrote:at no point in the fog ship dialogue does it say that the eternal life it grants causes you to not age

Maybe not, but a little logical deduction goes a long way.

Ted is shown to already be an adult when he encounters the Fog Ship, considering he has no apparent change he either spent a rather short time on the ship or the ship grants agelessness or is not affected by the passage of time at all.

Not to mention that deal would really suck around your 100th year with arthritis, hearing loss and what-not. Not to mention around your 1000th year if you had to age.


is it confirmed by konami that you age until adulthood with a true rune or just intelligent speculation in this community? it is possible he got the true rune, got on the fog ship, gave up his rune for a few years and aged while on the fog ship, then got it back and stopped aging. as for whether or not you age on the fog ship, keep in mind that the fog ship captain and the fog ship itself are both illusions. it is possible that you age on the fog ship but are given the illusion of agelessness(or the illusion of looking however you want to look?). we are talking about a fictional world of magic, so although you might think some conclusion you have drawn is right because you are being logical, unless you have some confirmed information by konami, you're just the loudest elitist on the forum. granted i haven't kept up with every single confirmed fact about suikoden, so there is a high chance that i am incredibly wrong about all of this, but if we don't actually have confirmation for your theories, i'd say it's best to keep an open mind.

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Re: how long true rune bearers can survive for when they los

Postby Antimatzist » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:53 am

@Flufflelz: methods of logic say that your argumentation is probably wrong.
We say that it grants agelessness, because, well, he didn't age.
You say it grants some kind of illusion of agelessness, which still keeps up after he is gone from the fog ship and the fog captain is at another dimension. I guess Ockham would prefer the first solution :>

I'd say he spent some years at the Fog Ship already, because it doesn't feel like he has given up his rune for one week or so. I replay IV now so I will pay attention to that scene...

I think the "age until adulthood"-thing is a fact by Konami, but not 100% sure.

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Re: how long true rune bearers can survive for when they los

Postby gilgamesh31 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:00 pm

Flufflez wrote:i don't remember anything that said he spent all 150 years on the fog ship. he would've had to go from getting the rune immediately to the fog ship for that to make sense actually.


Well i said around 150 years actually. I've read that on quite a few forums now one person said that it was written in an official guide book. But im not sure how much weight that actually holds...

Its also written on a few sites including our ol'Suikosource here, under Ted bio:

"His rune was stolen at one time, but he found it once again after a few years, which made him age a few years during his 300 years of wandering."
Last edited by gilgamesh31 on Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: how long true rune bearers can survive for when they los

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:27 pm

Flufflez wrote:is it confirmed by konami that you age until adulthood with a true rune

Yes.

Suikoden III also affirms this.

it is possible he got the true rune, got on the fog ship, gave up his rune for a few years and aged while on the fog ship, then got it back and stopped aging.

How? The intro clearly shows him as an adult encountering the Fog Ship. How can the fog ship possibly be the cause of his aging when he's already aged by the time he reaches it?

it is possible that you age on the fog ship but are given the illusion of agelessness(or the illusion of looking however you want to look?).

It's also possible it's made of gingerbread and dreams but until something suggests otherwise we're just going to have to take the established facts and the Fog Ship Guide's word for it.
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Flufflez
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Re: how long true rune bearers can survive for when they los

Postby Flufflez » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:50 pm

Antimatzist wrote:We say that it grants agelessness, because, well, he didn't age.
You say it grants some kind of illusion of agelessness, which still keeps up after he is gone from the fog ship and the fog captain is at another dimension. I guess Ockham would prefer the first solution :>

I'd say he spent some years at the Fog Ship already, because it doesn't feel like he has given up his rune for one week or so. I replay IV now so I will pay attention to that scene...

I think the "age until adulthood"-thing is a fact by Konami, but not 100% sure.


i'm not saying the fog ship definitely causes some kind of agelessness illusion, i was trying to explore the possibility of it. there is a huge difference. i'm trying to acquire information, not create it. if it did work the way i suggested (which it doesn't) the illusion of agelessness wouldn't need to persist once he left the ship because he got back the soul eater.



gilgamesh31 wrote:
Its also written on a few sites including our ol'Suikosource here, under Ted bio:

"His rune was stolen at one time, but he found it once again after a few years, which made him age a few years during his 300 years of wandering."


this is actually wrong though as raww points out. he ages because of the way true runes work, not because he lost it for a while on the ship. i believe i read that same info at one point causes some of my questions and confusion about all of this.


@raww- i don't remember s3 specifically mentioning aging to adulthood with a true rune but maybe it alludes to it. either way, this information is tossed around enough that if you say it's fact, i believe it's fact.

i had forgotten about the intro of s4, so that definitely confirms that ted had the appearance of an adult before going aboard the fog ship. whether or not you actually age on the fog ship is still debatable in my mind considering there is no actual information about how long he was aboard the ship (if it was 3 years he probably wouldn't look much different, for example).

whether or not there is any kind of illusion involved in the aging on the fog ship is pretty irrelevant, but just for the sake of arguing...there is nothing in the dialogue of the fog ship captain that specifically states anything about gingerbread or aging in appearance. the dialogue states that you will be granted eternal life if you stay on the ship but it doesn't say in what form. the dialogue suggests that maybe ted has been on the ship for a while, but there's no proof of this and any time period assigned to it is speculation. personally, if i were on the fog ship for a month, i'd feel like that was a really long time probably. i doubt there's much to do. obviously you know a lot about the series (more than i do by far), but there is a clear difference between the facts you point out about the stuff you know and the sarcastic remarks you make about the stuff you feel is probably right.

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Re: how long true rune bearers can survive for when they los

Postby gilgamesh31 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:57 am

I didnt say that he lost it for a while on the ship. On Teds bio it says:

"His rune was stolen at one time, but he found it once again after a few years, which made him age a few years during his 300 years of wandering.

Very little of what happened is known but Ted spent some time on the Fog Ship."

Implying that it happened even before he boarded the Fog ship, but once again im unsure how accurate the information that Blue Moon has provided here is...
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Re: how long true rune bearers can survive for when they los

Postby Flufflez » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:28 pm

good point. it's hard to tell if it is trying to imply that he aged b/c he lost it on the fog ship, or just randomly state that he lost it at some point. if he did in fact lose it for a while before boarding the fog ship (and this caused him to age) it would be impossible for him to have been on the fog ship for 150 years. also, if he really did lose it before boarding the fog ship, he has a serious issue with keeping his rune. like forillz remember when his grandpa gave it to him and was like, don't let anyone get this.

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Re: how long true rune bearers can survive for when they los

Postby gilgamesh31 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:45 pm

Hmmm :? It does sound a bit fishy. Does anyone know if its official stated that he lost his rune for a few years during his wandering?
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