True earth rune

Questions about the locations mentioned in the series; and those about the backstory not seen in the games.
oops
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True earth rune

Postby oops » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:32 am

Ok I've just finished playing this game again and I'm confused how Luc managed to get Sasarai's true Earth rune. When the other three runes were captured he needed aid from an additional rune to overpower Hugo/Chris/Geddoe's rune. I'm not too sure but didn't Luc mention that to extract a rune from someone he needed to use a sindar technique which involved a true rune and his wind rune to knock it out of sync? I'm sure he mentioned something about that whilst he was taking Geddoe's true lightning rune. *Just found the Quote* "The True Wind Rune that I bear will upset the balance when combined with the True Earth Rune, allowing me to seize your rune"

Am I correct in saying that this technique then involves two true runes and if that was the case then where did the other one come from when he took the Earth rune from Sasarai?

I was and reading around it says that Sasarai was distracted and then the rune was taken. Since Luc only had one rune surely Sasarai could do the same that Geddoe attempted to do, and block the power of the true wind rune with the power of his rune?

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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: True earth rune

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:45 am

oops wrote:Am I correct in saying that this technique then involves two true runes and if that was the case then where did the other one come from when he took the Earth rune from Sasarai?

I was and reading around it says that Sasarai was distracted and then the rune was taken. Since Luc only had one rune surely Sasarai could do the same that Geddoe attempted to do, and block the power of the true wind rune with the power of his rune?

Okay, here's the thing. When someone tells you that you are an artificial lifeform created for only one purpose and your entire world crumbles before you, you're not in much of a state to resist anything.
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oops
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Re: True earth rune

Postby oops » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:27 pm

hmm possibly... Imo it shows a week character and that he did not have any beliefs of his own, or was Luc just confirming something he already believed? Unfortunately it still leave the question open that does he require two runes to extract another true rune and if so why was this not the case for the true earth?

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Re: True earth rune

Postby KFCrispy » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:01 am

you don't need 2 true runes to pull one out. didn't Sarah pwn Chris's rune with just 1 true rune in Chapter 4? it's really about the strengths of the bearers. Luc completely surprised Sasarai making him defenseless, Sarah simply overpowered Chris, and Luc had to use an extreme amount of force to steal the True Lightning from Geddoe.

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Re: True earth rune

Postby oops » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:28 pm

Nope Sarah seems to used two runes to take Chris' rune off her. I have found some videos on youtube which show the scenes

Geddoe losing true lightning rune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45-WBZ5P ... re=related

Chris losing true water rune

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBXGg8Ae ... re=related

Hugo losing true fire rune

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfNS-Csj ... re=related

I know that each rune has different strengths and certain runes are more powerful than other runes and the bearers are more powerful.

Thinking about it then earth is weak against wind so that could explain how Luc managed to obtain the true earth rune. Sarah had the true earth and another rune which I can't make out on the video. Perhaps if one rune is stronger than the other then you can extract it from another person (by force) by just using the one rune, but if it is not then the rune would cancel the other one out so you have to use another rune to overpower the one that you want to take. Sarah managed to obtain the true earth rune as Luc was willing to give it her

If this sounds correct then I guess that answers my question :D

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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: True earth rune

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:34 pm

Thinking about it then earth is weak against wind so that could explain how Luc managed to obtain the true earth rune.

*facepalm* You've already had your answer, twice! Sasarai doesn't resist! That's why he doesn't need two True Runes to take it, he's incapacitated Sasarai mentally. All True Runes are equal in power, Wind doesn't beat Earth. SASARAI DOESN'T FIGHT BACK.

And the video clearly shows she only uses one against Chris, the other one is the container with the body parts to put the damn Water Rune into. For god's sake at least watch the videos you link to.
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Re: True earth rune

Postby Iesous » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:03 am

Haha... Your own video disproved your theory. Not only does Sarah clearly use only one True Rune, but she also uses Earth, which has absolutely no relationship to Water.

To answer your question (for a third time), Luc rocks Sasarai's world by telling him that he's not a real person. That's why it was so easy. He can't tell that to Geddoe (because it's not true and Geddoe knows it). Not to mention that Geddoe has had the TLR for 50 years at least. That's 20 years longer than Luc has been alive. He's going to have an extensive amount of control over and knowledge about/from it.

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Re: True earth rune

Postby oops » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:05 am

Raww Le Klueze, please don't be so rude. Of course I have watched the video's that I have linked to but because I don't understand it then I cannot work out what is being used.

Iesous - I never once said that water had any relation to earth.

Ok so if I take what you say and it only takes one rune to take another then what does the line from Luc mean? "The True Wind Rune that I bear will upset the balance when combined with the True Earth Rune, allowing me to seize your rune"

Does it then mean that if someone is mentally stronger and someone wanted to take their true rune they would have to use two runes?

Also when taking Hugo's rune Luc produced two runes. Because I cannot watch it at the moment I cannot see if Luc uses the True lightning rune, so I'll just assume that he uses it to show Hugo and weaken him so then he could take the rune.

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Re: True earth rune

Postby KFCrispy » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:49 pm

yeah dude, basically Luc was explaining he and Geddoe were about equal, but calling an additional True Rune to the table would let him overpower what was originally a deadlock. you're looking for rules that were never implied.

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Re: True earth rune

Postby gildedtalon » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:30 am

Wind>Earth

Play Suikoden IV/Tactics to know of the relation between the elements
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Re: True earth rune

Postby oops » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:57 am

Ah cheers lol, I was getting really confused as to what was going on there. Guess we got there in the end :)

gildedtalon - Thanks but I've already played em :P I knew the relation between the elements just couldn't work out what was going on here.

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Re: True earth rune

Postby Iesous » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:25 pm

gildedtalon wrote:Wind>Earth

Play Suikoden IV/Tactics to know of the relation between the elements


That is absolutely NOT what is going on. First of all, if that was the case, these games would suck because you'd have to know rules that hadn't even been invented in order to understand what was going on. The reasoning has to make sense in its own context.

Secondly, Wind is not greater or more powerful than Earth. That's just game mechanics for S4. It has had no bearing whatsoever on any of the rest of the series, whether before or after (i.e. S5).

Third, and actually to the point of the question: You have to have some power over someone in order to steal their True Rune. Geddoe, Sasarai, and Luc are all equal in power. They've all had their runes for a long time. Sasarai and Luc were created to bear their runes. Hugo had the spirit of the Flame Champion (Luc already tried to steal the rune in the Flame Champion's Hideout and wasn't able). Chris doesn't have a long or mystic connection to her rune, so she is easily the least powerful of the five. Since Luc is equal to Geddoe, Sasarai, and Hugo, he needs some edge in the power struggle. For Hugo and Geddoe, that means getting a second True Rune (it doesn't matter which one it is).
Luc first tries to get the runes from their sealed hiding places. That is far easier than stealing it from a person. His plan was to get Fire and Water first, then steal Lightning, then steal Earth. Throughout the game, he is thwarted from getting the first two. Thus, he has to steal a True Rune from the one person that he knows he has power over. To him, this is obviously Sasarai, because he knows his and Sasarai's origins, while Sasarai does not. He knows that Sasarai will be defenseless against his attempt once he finds out the truth.
After he gets Earth, he can get the others. He lures Geddoe away from the rest and takes his first (using Earth because he knows that Geddoe has a lot of control and power over the rune). Then he lures Chris away and has Sarah (who has much greater magical strength than Chris, and therefore does not need another rune) steal hers. At the same time, he steals Hugo's using another rune because he's already tried and failed using his Wind rune alone.

So once again, as Raww, KFCrispy and I have already told you, there aren't any special rules about how many runes you need or which rune is stronger than another. It's a simple power struggle.

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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: True earth rune

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:39 pm

Did you seriously just try and use a gameplay mechanic, from a game that came afterwards no less, to explain a plot element?
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Re: True earth rune

Postby Teck » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:01 pm

oops wrote:Raww Le Klueze, please don't be so rude. Of course I have watched the video's that I have linked to but because I don't understand it then I cannot work out what is being used.


Having lurked here for a LONG time and done a little bit of posting, I've come to the conclusion that Raww is just like that.... Don't take it to heart, but he is right....
She walks in beauty like the night, of cloudless climes and starry skies.... - Lord George Gordon Noel Byron

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Re: True earth rune

Postby Rachael » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:47 am

I'm more irritated at the suggestion that Sasarai is a weak character just because he was too upset at Luc's information to fight back. Seriously, most people would be upset to know that. I'm sure Luc was when he first learned it, too.
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