Succession in a Queendom

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Oppenheimer
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Succession in a Queendom

Postby Oppenheimer » Wed May 17, 2006 11:47 am

I'm a bit confused about how the Queendom works.

If Haswar and Lym both suddenly dropped dead and the Prince and Lyon got married. Would Lyon be queen?

Say Lyon and the Prince didn't get married. Would the prince be king because there are no female royalty left? Or would there just be no royal leader?

Say Ferid had survived but Lym and Haswar (as well as the other females) died. Would Ferid be king? Could he remarry and would his new wife be queen?

Even in a real Kingdom women can become Queens and leaders if there are no men this happens all the time in real life.

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Re: Sucession in a Queendom

Postby Wraith » Wed May 17, 2006 11:50 am

Oppenheimer wrote:I'm a bit confused about how the Queendom works.

If Haswar and Lym both suddenly dropped dead and the Prince and Lyon got married. Would Lyon be queen?

Say Lyon and the Prince didn't get married. Would the prince be king because there are no female royalty left? Or would there just be no royal leader?

Say Ferid had survived but Lym and Haswar (as well as the other females) died. Would Ferid be king? Could he remarry and would his new wife be queen?

Even in a real Kingdom women can become Queens and leaders if there are no men this happens all the time in real life.


If Haswar and Lym would die then I'm sure the Commander of The Queens Knights will be the political leader for a while. I also think that the Prince's offspring will then be the succesor of to the throne. But Lyon is not a Falenas so she will probably not be the Queen.

The rest are a bit annoying. If the entire Falenas family died out then I think Falena would come to a civil war and probably be torn and so on.

I think the most important part is that the Queen is of the Falenas bloodline. And I do not think there will ever be a King in Falena unless it gets refounded/renamed.

EDIT: You should also know that succesion rules in certain monarchy's arn't always clear and have been the cause of many wars in real life.

EDIT 2:
Since 1800, many of the world's monarchies have ceased to have a monarch and become republics, or become parliamentary democracies. Democratic countries which retain monarchy have by definition limited the monarch's power, with most having become constitutional monarchies.


Falena adopted a Parliament didn't they? If the Bloodline were to die out then I think Falena would maybe change into a republic or Democracy. Its more likely they would adopt a democracy though.

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Postby DeathQuaker » Wed May 17, 2006 12:10 pm

**Spoilers Ahoy**

I was given to understand one of the reasons it was exclusively a _Queendom_ was that in most circumstances, the Sun Rune will recognize only the rightful female ruler, even if the Rune isn't inscribed onto the Queen. Although obviously the Godwins eventually found a way around that (but really didn't benefit much). Of course, the Sun rune seems to render the most sane Queens bonko, so msybe that's not much of a requirement? (Or maybe it won't, now that Dawn and Twilight are back in place)

Rune requirements aside, I imagine it would work as it did for Queen Elizabeth I, obviously swapping the genders... for Falena, if there were no legitimate female heirs recognized by the people, then a male would assume the throne. In the scenario outlined above, the Prince would be King, but if he had a female heir, she would be next in line for the throne. And depending on the situation, they might require him to abdicate once she came of age.
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Postby Wraith » Wed May 17, 2006 12:15 pm

DeathQuaker wrote:**Spoilers Ahoy**

I was given to understand one of the reasons it was exclusively a _Queendom_ was that in most circumstances, the Sun Rune will recognize only the rightful female ruler, even if the Rune isn't inscribed onto the Queen. Although obviously the Godwins eventually found a way around that (but really didn't benefit much). Of course, the Sun rune seems to render the most sane Queens bonko, so msybe that's not much of a requirement? (Or maybe it won't, now that Dawn and Twilight are back in place)

Rune requirements aside, I imagine it would work as it did for Queen Elizabeth I, obviously swapping the genders... for Falena, if there were no legitimate female heirs recognized by the people, then a male would assume the throne. In the scenario outlined above, the Prince would be King, but if he had a female heir, she would be next in line for the throne. And depending on the situation, they might require him to abdicate once she came of age.



I think the Sun Rune is just bound to the area. Anyone that governs the area that the Sun Rune is bound to( Falena/Old armes) will be able to bear it. Or the Sun Rune lets itself be born by any leader. Actually, the Sun Rune dousn't matter in this discussion unless the Sun Rune actively chooses the new leader.

Also, the first queen of Falena wasn't a queen(and probably didn't think of starting a queendom in the first place.) when she acquired the SUn Rune.

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Postby Koujirou » Wed May 17, 2006 1:20 pm

Also on the topic of the sun rune only choosing female hosts...

*SPOILERS*


If you remember, it's mentioned that the KING of an ancient dynastic race bore the sun rune, only went insane and nuked his entire country. So that kills the female only theory. And speaking of which, I have to wonder if the sun rune always drove their bearers insane, or if perhaps it was this event that put the 'curse' on the rune...

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Postby Futagi » Wed May 17, 2006 1:24 pm

At some point in the game, I remember someone telling the prince that he absolutely HAD to survive to save the royal bloodline and keep it going. So odds are if Lym and Haswar dropped dead, the prince as Commander of the Queen's Knights would rule, probably until he had a daughter who came of age. As to whether or not Lyon, if she married him, would become queen, that I'm not sure about. Though as Lymsleia decided in that one ending, the Queen and and the Commander of the Queen's Knights no longer necessarily have to be married to each other to hold their respective posts.
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Postby demon eye » Wed May 17, 2006 2:51 pm

Whomever remained of the royal bloodline would carry the rightful heir to the throne. If the bloodline died out, which was maybe the ultimate plan of the Godwins and Barrows, then their would more than likely be a election to determine who would assume rule. Now that the senate has been disbanded, it would be a bloody transition if something of that nature would occur.

I would speculate that a female would not be necessary to assume rule. I think the Queendom still remains as an homage to the first queen who brought the Sun, Dawn and Twilight Runes to Falena after Armes was obliterated. I am pretty sure they would make changes to that tradition if it was necessary for the country's survival.

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Postby Darian » Wed May 17, 2006 3:02 pm

I think what Wraith said makes the most sense. It seems the most important aspect of the monarchy of Falena is that the ruling person is of the royal bloodline. It's a Queendom and I don't think there would ever be a king, but it think they place more importance on blood than on gender.

Like others have said, Commander of the Queen's Knights would assume authority but would probably remain Commander of the Queen's Knights and/or be given some sort of temporary honorary title). Likewise, I think that if Lym, Arshtat, Ferid, Sialeeds, and Haswar had all died, the Prince would probably become temporary Commander of the Queen's knights and defacto 'king' until he had a daughter, then when she came of age she'd be made queen, a Sacred Games would probably be held immediately, the winner of which would replace the Prince as Commander of the Queen's Knights.

Damn... it's good thing Lym reformed things because that's a mess of a political system. :p

And just imagine in the Prince never had a daughter - it'd be absolute chaos! I think it's clear that civil war in Falena was inevitible.

Damnit - this is why I love Suikoden! :D

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Postby patapi » Wed May 17, 2006 8:07 pm

In the absence of a female heir to the throne, male relatives may assume temporary command under the name of the Commander of the Queen's Knights. Not King of Falena. That is, until a suitable female relative come alone, which will probably be his daugher.

That's my thoughts anyway.

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Postby Ushiku » Thu May 18, 2006 3:30 am

Well with all the others making their pact to denounce their right to the throne, wouldn't that make Lyon the Queen if Lymslair died because it was similar in Suikoden 2 how Jowy became King even though Jilia was Queen, it was Jowy who held all the power. Perhaps it would be the Prince the Commander of the Queens Knights still and Lyon the new Queen.
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Postby Philweasel » Thu May 18, 2006 5:12 am

Ushiku wrote:Well with all the others making their pact to denounce their right to the throne, wouldn't that make Lyon the Queen if Lymslair died because it was similar in Suikoden 2 how Jowy became King even though Jilia was Queen, it was Jowy who held all the power. Perhaps it would be the Prince the Commander of the Queens Knights still and Lyon the new Queen.

Well they were at war at the time, which means people aren't likely to risk their necks complaining about a well liked and competent leader midway. He was also a great leader and highly charasmatic, Leon sadly lacks somewhat in that area.

It's possible, but Falena is a rather conservitive nation.

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Postby Wraith » Thu May 18, 2006 5:23 am

Ushiku wrote:Well with all the others making their pact to denounce their right to the throne, wouldn't that make Lyon the Queen if Lymslair died because it was similar in Suikoden 2 how Jowy became King even though Jilia was Queen, it was Jowy who held all the power. Perhaps it would be the Prince the Commander of the Queens Knights still and Lyon the new Queen.


Well, due to Highlands customs Jowy had to drink the blood of Agares Blight, technicly making him a blood relative in their eyes. That made it possible for him to become king. In Falena the Successor to the throne has to be the child of the Royal Family.

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Postby Ushiku » Thu May 18, 2006 5:39 am

I know but if Lymslair never gets married, dies or only has male children as her offspring, then who would become heir? I presumed if Lyon and the Prince had a daughter together she would become the new heir.
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Postby Philweasel » Thu May 18, 2006 7:09 am

Ushiku wrote:I know but if Lymslair never gets married, dies or only has male children as her offspring, then who would become heir? I presumed if Lyon and the Prince had a daughter together she would become the new heir.

I presume the same. Unless (like Sialeeds and Haswar) they were disinherited they would still be members of the royal family. I presume they would wait to see if the male children had any daughters first though.

This all sounds a bit like the Japanese royal family doesn't it?

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Postby xXSqualleoNXx » Thu May 18, 2006 9:49 am

Philweasel wrote:
Ushiku wrote:I know but if Lymslair never gets married, dies or only has male children as her offspring, then who would become heir? I presumed if Lyon and the Prince had a daughter together she would become the new heir.

I presume the same. Unless (like Sialeeds and Haswar) they were disinherited they would still be members of the royal family. I presume they would wait to see if the male children had any daughters first though.

This all sounds a bit like the Japanese royal family doesn't it?


Succesion Wars are inevitable in the long run. Either way, the clear customs here is obviously to have Royal Blood ruling. Hence, if Lymsleia and Haswar died without heirs, the prince would take an interim rule as Commander of the Queen's Knights and General of the Falenan Army. If he married Lyon, I certainly doubt she would become Queen, as she is not of royal blood. But their daughters would definately end up being heirs. If the Royal bloodline died out though, that would bring trouble.

But of course, unless the Royal family had an impossibility to bear children, it is doubtfull they would die off without first assuring an heir. They don't want to leave a mess behind them after all.
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