Loyalty(MEGA MAJOR SPOILERS!)

Ask questions about the personality and backstory of the multitude of characters in the Suikoden series.
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ShardStar
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Postby ShardStar » Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:23 am

Alenia and Zahak did break their oaths, unlike Teo and Ain Guide who remained loyal to the Emperor at the cost of their lives. So who was right and who was wrong? Who was good and who was Evil?

True Lightning
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Postby True Lightning » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:08 am

ShardStar wrote: Alenia and Zahak did break their oaths, unlike Teo and Ain Guide who remained loyal to the Emperor at the cost of their lives. So who was right and who was wrong? Who was good and who was Evil?


In Suikoden V? Easy, the Good guys are at the Hero's side.

Why? They're fighting for the people of Falena and not killing them.

- Barrows orchestrated the Lordlake incident, the people of Lordlake suffers.

- Godwins wanted to wipe out the Beavers, they also feels it's alright to burn a town just to escape saving their own ass ended killing civilians, they had a mad general like Childerich who likes to kill un-armed civillians.

What about the Hero's side? they always ended up saving everyone, the people were happy. So the good guys is quite obvious.


Now for Suikoden I..............that's more like it. It's rather confusing to define Good from Evil in that. Barbarossa was just being used by Windy, but I guess Barbarossa is evil because he let Windy killed countless of civillians, not to mention they employ the likes of Neclord and Yuber who enjoyed killing people. I guess in Suikoden I, Tir Mcdohl and co. and be defined as the good guys because they were actually fighting for the people. (Commandeering Humans, the Elves, Dwarves and co. in one Nation).
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Postby YouKnowYouGeddoe » Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:03 pm

I think Zahhak and Alenia were substantially different people by the time the prince confronts them in the Sun Palace than they were at the beginning of the game. When we first meet them, they strike me as biased but fundamentally stable individuals. However, by the end of the game they seem completely consumed by their devotion to Godwin and their hatred of the prince's "treason."

Maybe Konami is showing us a different way to deal with divided loyalties and inner conflict than we've seen in previous games: Rather than be uncertain and have a change of heart (like Pahn) or be stoic and unyielding (like Teo and Troy), Alenia and Zahhak just go batshit crazy and totally lose their sense of emotional balance.
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jannin
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Postby jannin » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:00 am

Alenia and Zahhak, to me are traitors of their own believes.

The betrayed their own knighthood for the ambition of Godwin. And use the trust people had on them against them. Seriously, how dare they still call themselves a knight after such dishonorable actions? While Teo does not. Do you see Teo use Tir's trust on him against him? Teo at least put up a fight in the knightly fashion he believed in.

sunstar25
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Postby sunstar25 » Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:17 am

They foolishly stood their ground when Gizel told them not to. Even he thought their actions were pitiful. I'm pretty sure Zahhak and Alenia didn't get a proper knight's burial. I'm not sure what happens to a knight's corpse when he/she dies in disgrace.

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Iku
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Postby Iku » Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:17 pm

if you believe you are doing the right thing you aren't evil, misguided, maybe but not evil, evil is doing something bad and fully understanding its wrong, i'd say they did what they thought was right and became queen's knights to protect falena not arshtat, so they never saw themselves as traitors! :o
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Alex Delferia
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Postby Alex Delferia » Wed May 02, 2007 7:30 am

I kinda knew Zahak was evil the moment that evil, suspicious music played after the Prince either says it's no big deal, or accepts the apology, when they started giving their pieces of their mind in his presence.

Come on.

darkphoenix
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Postby darkphoenix » Wed May 02, 2007 10:41 am

I was completely fooled: I thought Zahak would be the new Humphrey, the discreet tank character and I personaly think Alenia is cool. She s even cooler for being a vilain.

sunstar25
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Re: Loyalty(MEGA MAJOR SPOILERS!)

Postby sunstar25 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:03 pm

It always got on my nerves that they would call you traitor when they're the real traitors.

Twelve
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Re: Loyalty(MEGA MAJOR SPOILERS!)

Postby Twelve » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:54 pm

I don't know if I was reading her character incorrectly, but I always thought that Alenia was romantically interested in Gizel. Granted, she understood that he was nobility and she played the role of a knight/soldier, but I couldn't help but feel that some of her passionate loyalty to Godwin was motivated by feelings of a affection. He did sort of "play" her by praising her and giving her the sense that she was important despite her numerous failures.

And what was up with the ending of the game? When Frey chases Lyon into death, Zahak and Alenia were there, cheering for the prince or giving him encouragement. I could see why Gizel and his father might be around; they never seemed to be maliciously hateful of Frey...They were just doing what was necessary to pursue their path in life, and they treated Frey with civility whenever they met. But Zahak and Alenia were just a different story in terms of their confrontations with Frey...

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Re: Loyalty(MEGA MAJOR SPOILERS!)

Postby KFCrispy » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:02 am

Twelve wrote:I don't know if I was reading her character incorrectly, but I always thought that Alenia was romantically interested in Gizel. Granted, she understood that he was nobility and she played the role of a knight/soldier, but I couldn't help but feel that some of her passionate loyalty to Godwin was motivated by feelings of a affection. He did sort of "play" her by praising her and giving her the sense that she was important despite her numerous failures.


oh yeah definitely.. Alenia just wanted to impress Gizel. Zahak had "true loyalty" to whoever was in control of Sol Falena. their motives both felt pretty weak, though, considering they were perfectly fine with the idea that the Godwins launched the assault on the palace with Nether Gate, Georg killed the queen and took Prince hostage, then Prince becomes a rebel traitor. i guess 2 + 2 made 3 for them.

i think the intention of the ending was that these guys all care about Falena and its future (but had different visions for it)....... meh

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Re: Loyalty(MEGA MAJOR SPOILERS!)

Postby Twelve » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:31 am

To a certain extent, they may not have viewed their actions as total overthrow/betrayal of the current crown. They respected the bloodline tradition by allowing Lym to continue as queen of Falena, despite her obvious resistance to their will. Of the two, Zahak's character just seemed shallow and underdeveloped... Alenia's character seemed consistent throughout the game, and both she and Sialeeds allowed Gizel to show a side of himself other than the "madman who'd hire a general like Childerich."

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Re: Loyalty(MEGA MAJOR SPOILERS!)

Postby son_michael » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:43 am

to me they both seemed dellusional....


they killed there queen,queens knight commander and most of the palace guards......and yet they dare to call the prince a traitor to the country of Falena....


at the End of the game Zahak even says"it seems trying to reason with them is fruitless" WHAT REASON? you killed his freaking mother and forced his sister to be your puppet queen! you disgraced the queens knights!


but they seem to think on a completley different level....there idiots pure and simple, they think that power and might equals right and they think once they have the power then everybody else becomes traitors if there not with them


there are the worst scum and dellusional fools of the suikoverse

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Re: Loyalty(MEGA MAJOR SPOILERS!)

Postby ihatehomohabilis » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:41 am

i don't think we should call them traitors because ever since the beginning they were already showing signs of where their loyalty really lies. also, i'm not sure where i got this info but i heard that zahhank is related to the godwins (family) and it is pretty obvious that alenia doesn't hold any other conviction than that of gizel's. they never respected the authority of ferid and frey so they can't "betray" them, especially frey.

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Mystical
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Re: Loyalty(MEGA MAJOR SPOILERS!)

Postby Mystical » Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:51 am

Zahhak and Alenia are traitors and even hypocrites.
They turned against their commander, country and queen for a new ruler.
Is it because they believed in something and were misguided?
That's nothing even close to an excuse!
They favored the Godwins, who wanted to over take the throne by killing the royal family.
They betrayed the very code of a Queendom, by having the Godwins play Lym as a puppet. She was too young to do anything, thus having her only as a figure.
Also, Zahhak and Alenia KNEW the prince isn't a traitor. How can he be when they saw what happened in the Sun Palace and how Nether Gate wanted to assassin him. They also knew that the Queen's(Lym's) wish was to be reunited with her brother, but they kept on with the Godwin's idea of the Prince being 'the traitor'.

They are neither knights nor honorable people. I think Childrich is better than them, at least he was honest about how evil he was.
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