Loyalty(MEGA MAJOR SPOILERS!)

Ask questions about the personality and backstory of the multitude of characters in the Suikoden series.
Sickpup
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Postby Sickpup » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:36 pm

Exactly, and fighting those types of characters are my favorite part of the Suikoden series. Even though Alenia and Zihhak were sort of "evil" I really love it when characters aren't all evil, and just nothing but loyal.

Like Ain Gide, Teo, Seed and Culgan, Han, Dilber, Bahram, and I think my favorite is fighting Troy. I am just sort of depressed during those fights.
"Master Flik, you are immature. But that immaturity, that honesty was something I coveted.

And I'm sure that is why Lady Odessa loved you..."

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Sov_Rune
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Postby Sov_Rune » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:47 pm

Fighting those two reminded me of when you fought Seed and Culgan at the end of II... I'm not sure if they had plans for the future of Falena though.

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son_michael
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Postby son_michael » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:56 pm

Sov_Rune wrote:Fighting those two reminded me of when you fought Seed and Culgan at the end of II... I'm not sure if they had plans for the future of Falena though.


how could it remind you of them? seed and culgan were good people alenia and Zahak are... to put it nicely....NOT good people

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Sov_Rune
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Postby Sov_Rune » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:58 pm

They both stood... on my way! (>'.')>[===>

And besides, post-game when they showed up again gave them a new light shining under them. IMO.
Last edited by Sov_Rune on Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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son_michael
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Postby son_michael » Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:01 pm

ah...yep they all stand in your way but still...it would be a dishonor to seed and culgan to have any remote connections/similarities to alenia and zahak

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Rivera
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Postby Rivera » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:41 pm

Yeah, Son Michael has a point. If you choose to defend your castle, Galleon even mentions the enemies you are facing are enemies that do not fight honorably. Although in the exact moment you're being sieged by Maha, Jidan, and Childerich, (by the way did anyone else think Maha was just a flamboyant dude and not a female like I did?), the sum up is Godwin is not fighting honorably.

Also burning Lelcar isn't even remotely the right thing to do, yet Zahak does it anyway, not caring if innocent people die as a result. Contrast that with Culgan and Seed, who are not monsters, and in fact are more helpful to Jowy than they are to the psychotic Luca.

I doubt Seed and Culgan would take Nostrum to become monsters. They accepted that to lose was their fate whereas Alenia and Zahak became psychotic Suikoden equivalents of Suicide Bomers (the Nostrum kills the person who takes it as well).

I think their souls were redeemed at the end, but so was Darth Vader's in the Star Wars movies, and I don't exactly consider him a "nice fellow."
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KoRnholio
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Postby KoRnholio » Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:58 am

Wouldn't Seed and Culgan be much more comparable to Generals Novum and Luger?

The actions of Zahak and Alenia remind me of Pahn's in Suikoden I, before he comes to his senses. Making the personal decision to betray people close to them for what they think is the greater good.

Simeon
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Postby Simeon » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:28 am

I dont know if Zahak or Alenia could be considered evil. I think they loyalities always remained with the Godwins. But I thought Zahak lived in Leclar on the western inlet. Wouldnt that mean he was a Godwin supporter from the beginning if not he would be surrounded by lots of people who were. About burning the village its a stretegic move anyone good general would have done that. If he did not do that he would have sacrificed more men during the retreat because your army would pursue. This gave them time to regroup imo. And Alenia i think she just one of those niave female characters who seems to be brainwashed by the godwin faction.

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Postby Mephantom » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:32 am

KoRnholio wrote:Wouldn't Seed and Culgan be much more comparable to Generals Novum and Luger?

The actions of Zahak and Alenia remind me of Pahn's in Suikoden I, before he comes to his senses. Making the personal decision to betray people close to them for what they think is the greater good.


I disagree about them being similar to Pahn. For Pahn, there was a conflicting duty, he was supposed to be loyal to Tir, but also to Teo McDohl, and likely his sense of duty is more strong towards the latter.

Alenia and Zahhak had no obligation at all to the Godwins. They were suppose to be loyal to the Royal Family and no one else.

Simeon wrote:I dont know if Zahak or Alenia could be considered evil. I think they loyalities always remained with the Godwins. But I thought Zahak lived in Leclar on the western inlet. Wouldnt that mean he was a Godwin supporter from the beginning if not he would be surrounded by lots of people who were. About burning the village its a stretegic move anyone good general would have done that. If he did not do that he would have sacrificed more men during the retreat because your army would pursue. This gave them time to regroup imo. And Alenia i think she just one of those niave female characters who seems to be brainwashed by the godwin faction.


IMO they are evil in every possible way. Their blind loyalty to Godwins evil cause makes them evil, in addition to betraying their oath and taking the former leader's daughter hostage, and assisting outsiders in making Lymsleia a puppet Queen.

They are even worst than the Godwins themselves. The Godwins sort of reminds me of Cao Cao from the Romance of Three Kingdoms. They saw the Queendom as divided; many fractions do not recognize the Royal Family in power (which was more or less true), and the Royal Family showed no intention of uniting the land, so they took the matter into their own hands. Their course of actions were definitely evil, but their starting point was not. Also, they never sworn to protect the Queen; and their job is mainly giving advice of what they think is best. They were paid to question the Queen, while Zahhak and Alenia were not.

Zahhak and Alenia, however, DID swear to protect the Queen, and had no business questioning the Queen's decisions. If they felt so strongly against the Queen and Ferid, they should have simply just resigned, instead of staying as an insider and betraying them at the chance.

IMO there is nothing more evil than to earn Royal Family's complete trust, then not only betray and murder them, also assist in making their heir a puppet to their cause. At least the Godwins clearly showed themselves as enemies and unsupportive of the Queen and Ferid.

And about burning a village is something any good general will do in order to retreat; that is simply not true. No good can come from burning down your own village, any good general will know that. A good general would rather sacrifice some of his own troops to leave behind (to stall the enemies while the rest of the main force retreats) rather than burning down the village.

Even if burning the village WAS the only option, notice Zahhak's reaction after burning it down? He was practically gloating about it, like he was proud to do such a thing.

Simeon
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Postby Simeon » Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:11 pm

Hey if you think about it they didnt betray anyone. For goodness sakes Ferid and im sure Arshtat probably knew what Alenia and Zahak would probably betray them to the godwins. If Kyle can notice it im sure Ferid and Arshtat would to. Why do you think Ferid chose Ghalleon and George to aid himin protecting the queen?? Its because he could not trust Zahak or Alenia.

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Rivera
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Postby Rivera » Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:37 pm

Just because Ferid and Arsthat were aware they couldn't be trusted doesn't NOT make them traitors to their sworn oath of loyalty to the Queen.
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Albert Silverberg
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Postby Albert Silverberg » Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:05 am

I believe that Alania and Zahak did what they think is right. they'rew not necessarily wrong.

Now, they thought that doing all of this ruckus was going to be essential fo Falena's future. They believed in it. Kind like how Magneto believes that what he is doing is right.

Lord Ragner
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Postby Lord Ragner » Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:11 am

By the by, just because you believe you're doing the right thing, doesn't mean you're not evil.

True Lightning
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Postby True Lightning » Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:23 am

- I guess the Nazis just doing what they thought was right, by massacring Jews.

- I guess the Yugoslavs just doing what they thought was right by following Slobodan Milosevic, by comitting ethnic cleansing and genocide to the Albanians in the Balkan War.

Who said evil is subjective? Sometimes evil is OBVIOUS.
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Lord Ragner
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Postby Lord Ragner » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:39 am

No lookit you've now inforcered Godwin's Law. I hope you're happy.


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