Loyalty(MEGA MAJOR SPOILERS!)

Ask questions about the personality and backstory of the multitude of characters in the Suikoden series.
User avatar
dragonmasterx
Elite Member
Posts: 675
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:35 pm
Location: Japan

Loyalty(MEGA MAJOR SPOILERS!)

Postby dragonmasterx » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:52 pm

SPOILERS!

TURN BACK NOW OR REGRET IT FOR ETERNITY!

















Why do you think Zahak and Alenia betray the Prince? From Alenia's dialogue in the beginning, we already know she's a big fan of Godwin politics; Godwin supporters believe punishing Lordlake with the Sun Rune was not enough; they should've been punished further. Punish insurrectionists to the utmost degree!

Zahak is quiet about these political matters, so we don't really know what he's thinking.

Were they already spies for Godwin from the beginning? Or did they suddenly decide to switch sides when the opportunity presented itself?

By the end of the game, Alenia still holds the same beliefs, explaining why she doesn't rejoin the Prince. But how about Zahak? We never really know what's going on in his head.

User avatar
patapi
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:55 pm

Postby patapi » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:24 pm

Zahhak. I'm not sure if I actually understood his character. I felt that he wasn't given as much screentime as the other Godwin generals, unfortunately.

How about those meddling New Armes generals?

User avatar
dragonmasterx
Elite Member
Posts: 675
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:35 pm
Location: Japan

Postby dragonmasterx » Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:58 pm

I don't remember all the intricate details, but:

Shula said the Prince's force is scary and doesn't wanna mess with him; so instead, joining him and improving foreign relations is the better course of action.

He had a difference of opinion with the Ames troops from the other fronts. The other 2 generals joined up Godwin because they were promised plenty of land if Godwin successfully conquered the whole area. There was some dispute among the decision making politicians in Ames. Eventually, they all agreed with Shula.

Also, Shula's action of joining the Prince was unofficial. He explained the reason but I forget.
---
weblog wrote:
Zahark - a Queen's Knight born in Stormfist. When it comes to swordsmanship, his skills are second only to Felid and Georg.


I guess he was already on Godwin's side since birth.

And during the banquet, if you speak to Alenia, she says
"..................................... Oh! Sorry...I was just thinking..."

Also, at the Queen's Knights Meeting Room, Alenia and Zahak are always standing together.

At Lunas Holy Land, Sialeeds says "I wonder how Galleon, Miakis, and Kyle are faring..." Notice she doesn't wonder how how Zahak and Alenia are doing? Does this mean she already knows the two were traitors?

User avatar
Rivera
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:41 am
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Contact:

Postby Rivera » Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:26 am

You don't get a whole lot of Alenia and Zahak's histories from their dialogues, but "Portaits of the Enemy" in the castle's newspaper, if I remember elaborates quite a bit further on their histories/personalities/intentions and their likely reasons for being so strongly behind Godwin.

I sort of felt the betrayals coming a mile away from Zahak seeming to dislike Ferid, and Alenia's overall personality and attitude towards life, and found myself saying to myself "I can't wait to KILL her."
What is most important to you? Will you give me the happiness of taking it away from you?

User avatar
son_michael
Posts: 2231
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:24 am
Location: New York

Postby son_michael » Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:33 am

not too mention alenia constanly tries to shove the godwin philosophy down the princes throat, if you talk to her she says something like"your highness dont you feel lord godwin is correct?" "prince= I dunno" your highness! please believe Lord Godwin! he is doing what is best for Falena! the sun rune must be used to establish Falena's dominance!"

or how about the time at stormfist...."as if a low barbarian like him could ever be the commander"

Arshtat=oh? ferid was more babaric than that you know!

ferid= ha ha ha! your right!!

Alenia= oh no! please forgive me your majesties! I didn't mean...


so there were alot of hints at alenia's betrayal, Zahak always kept to himself and you always thought he was neutral

alenia just shows her emotions way too much

User avatar
Rivera
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:41 am
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Contact:

Postby Rivera » Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:11 pm

son_michael wrote:not too mention alenia constanly tries to shove the godwin philosophy down the princes throat, if you talk to her she says something like"your highness dont you feel lord godwin is correct?" "prince= I dunno" your highness! please believe Lord Godwin! he is doing what is best for Falena! the sun rune must be used to establish Falena's dominance!"

or how about the time at stormfist...."as if a low barbarian like him could ever be the commander"

Arshtat=oh? ferid was more babaric than that you know!

ferid= ha ha ha! your right!!

Alenia= oh no! please forgive me your majesties! I didn't mean...


so there were alot of hints at alenia's betrayal, Zahak always kept to himself and you always thought he was neutral

alenia just shows her emotions way too much


I think the bits that made me suspicious of Zahak were that he immensely seemed to dislike Kyle in a way that hinted the two would eventually go at it, and he does say something about how if Ferid wants them to speak their minds, he'll be the first to say he disagrees with just about everything Ferid puts down. Plus his sephiroth-y look just made me think about Sephiroth and made him seem evil by default. There's just something more cold about even the character portraits of Zahak and Alenia as opposed to Galleon, Kyle, etc. which gives that forboding presence.

I can't remember wanting to off enemy generals more in the Suiko series than these two, except for Maybe Milich Oppenheimer who caused me to get the normal ending about three times in a row before I realized he was a SOD.
What is most important to you? Will you give me the happiness of taking it away from you?

ninjar
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:26 pm

Postby ninjar » Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:16 pm

There was also the fact that Alenia and Zahhak were not in the throne room protecting Queen Arshtat. This for me was what revealed their defection.

User avatar
Serpent
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:43 am

Postby Serpent » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:30 pm

son_michael wrote:not too mention alenia constanly tries to shove the godwin philosophy down the princes throat, if you talk to her she says something like"your highness dont you feel lord godwin is correct?" "prince= I dunno" your highness! please believe Lord Godwin! he is doing what is best for Falena! the sun rune must be used to establish Falena's dominance!"

or how about the time at stormfist...."as if a low barbarian like him could ever be the commander"

Arshtat=oh? ferid was more babaric than that you know!

ferid= ha ha ha! your right!!

Alenia= oh no! please forgive me your majesties! I didn't mean...


so there were alot of hints at alenia's betrayal, Zahak always kept to himself and you always thought he was neutral

alenia just shows her emotions way too much

I think it's pretty natural for a women.
You can close your eyes from reality but not memories.

User avatar
BraveKing
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:24 am

Postby BraveKing » Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:52 am

I totally knew Zahak was gonna pull something. Never trusted that guy for a second I mean...look at him.

as for Alania, I figured she'd pull a Sonya were I had to beat the sense into her.

I found it suspicious too that off all the Queen Knights those two were th eonly ones who werent buddy buddy with the good guys. I mean George was always oart of the inner circle with the Kyle went out of his way so he could goof around with them and Galleon was sorta grandfatherly figure.
"Victory belongs......TO THOSE WITH COURAGE!!!!"-Guy Shishioh, GaoGaiGar

Tal
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:59 pm

Postby Tal » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:23 pm

At the Sacred Games when Childerich beat Belcoot, I noticed that Alenia was clapping and cheering rather estatically compared to the other royalty. I thought that hinted at something my second time through the game.

Sickpup
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:26 pm
Location: New York, NY
Contact:

Postby Sickpup » Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:18 pm

I think "betrayal" is the wrong word to use for those two. They wanted what was best for Falena, and they thought ruiling with an iron fist was best for it. And they thought this could only be achieved through Godwin being in control. So for them to help the Prince would mean turning their back on everything they believe in.
"Master Flik, you are immature. But that immaturity, that honesty was something I coveted.

And I'm sure that is why Lady Odessa loved you..."

User avatar
Rivera
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:41 am
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Contact:

Postby Rivera » Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:47 pm

Betrayal actually is the right word when it comes to Zahak. In conversations with him, he's constantly talking about loyalty and duty to the Queen without questioning her decisions or feedback is the way of knights and whatnot. No doubt he's very stiff-minded, but he pretty much sums up that the Queen's Knights have no place to ever question the Queen.

So how can "duty to the Queen" involve conspiring in her death? Involving himself in the overthrowing of Arshtat is a complete contradiction of his alleged values that he throws out in your face. If that's not trechery, what is?

The only way I can see him possibly in his mind justifying it is if he already considers Lym as the true Queen, and therefore Gizel as his commander (and not Ferid) the instant Godwin wins the sacred games.
What is most important to you? Will you give me the happiness of taking it away from you?

User avatar
son_michael
Posts: 2231
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:24 am
Location: New York

Postby son_michael » Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:06 pm

yeah alenia and zahak flat out betrayed arshtat, both of them believed ferid was not deserving of his position since he wasn't a noble and at the same time both of them swore loyalty to arshtat and ferid so there job was to protect them until a new queen was chosen and until the official ceremony a new queen was not chosen, there duty to Falena should have been to fight off any invaders that attacked sun palace but instead they welcomed them in and fought with them to attack fellow queens knights along with the commander and the queen herself!

those 2 are traitors in every sense of the word, even if they believed they were doing the right thing they STILL betrayed there oath and there duty

Sickpup
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:26 pm
Location: New York, NY
Contact:

Postby Sickpup » Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:41 pm

Yeah, that's true. I was thinking of more their alliegence to the Prince, rather then Ferid and Arshtat.

But I really liked the fact that you were able to kill them in the end. I think I might have hated the old "OH HERO YOU BEAT US IN BATTLE NOW WE WILL JOIN YOUR CAUSE AND FORGET EVERYTHING WE EVER BELIEVED IN EVER AND FIGHT WITH YOU" thing. And then you have no choice to recruit them cause they are SoDs.
"Master Flik, you are immature. But that immaturity, that honesty was something I coveted.



And I'm sure that is why Lady Odessa loved you..."

User avatar
Rivera
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:41 am
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Contact:

Postby Rivera » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:40 pm

Sickpup wrote:Yeah, that's true. I was thinking of more their alliegence to the Prince, rather then Ferid and Arshtat.

But I really liked the fact that you were able to kill them in the end. I think I might have hated the old "OH HERO YOU BEAT US IN BATTLE NOW WE WILL JOIN YOUR CAUSE AND FORGET EVERYTHING WE EVER BELIEVED IN EVER AND FIGHT WITH YOU" thing. And then you have no choice to recruit them cause they are SoDs.


True, but it wasn't the first time in Suikoden we were able to do this, i.e. Ain Gide in Suikoden I, Culgan and Seed in Suikoden II... I will say the original Suikoden was probably the worst one when it came to enemy generals defecting: Kwanda, Milich, Sonya, Kasim, Alen, Grenseal and Griffith all join you. Valeria was an Imperial but technically she had already defected before meeting you. Of course the plot point there is that several of them were controlled by the Black Rune.
What is most important to you? Will you give me the happiness of taking it away from you?


Return to “Character Questions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests