Gay Characters

Ask questions about the personality and backstory of the multitude of characters in the Suikoden series.
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Humphrey Mintz
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Humphrey Mintz » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:44 pm

Yeah I heard Mass Effect was actually banned in a certain country where it's illegal to be gay or something as well? Because of the sex scene betwen an ALIEN character and a female, SHOULD THE PLAYER CHOOSE THAT OPTION!! Grr. It annoys me when people are downright homophobic. The whole point is that it's an option and not forced. So while some people may not want to play as a gay character due to preference, or even if they don't like the idea of homosexuality but still just accept it for what it is and choose not to play, that's fine. But when people are complaining that others CAN be gay in the game, it's a bit pathetic. =P
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Auragaea
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Auragaea » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:59 am

Well, according to BioWare, it'd be a waste to create gay party members, because only a few of their player demographic will actually play them compared to bisexual characters where even straight people can have access to them.
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Oppenheimer
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Oppenheimer » Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:44 pm

Where'd you hear that, got a link?

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Rooks
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Rooks » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:03 pm

Well, there is a lot I can say here. Be warned this is long and operates at least on a College reading level.

First, it might be best if I explain the difference between Textual arguments and Contextual arguments.

A "text," to give you all a new definition of the word, is anything that signifies. So, the word "text" -in a cultural studies sense- can mean anything from a book to a film, to a game, to a blog and even more. When you make a textual argument, you make an argument based on the shared text, in order to convince others to interpret that text in the same way you do. In a sense, this is a method of using shared signs to create shared signification.

A contextual argument uses facts or opinions which are not directly represented in the text, but to the same end.

So, we have the textual arguments: "Lelei said this to Lucretia." "Aldo dropped this hint here." etc. And we have the contextual arguments: "Millich dresses this way because he is gay." "Tir and Gremio are too close to be just friends." Also, Arguments that "The creator intended this or that" is another type of contextual argument.

First, as an audience, we have the right to interpret texts as we see fit. It is silly to say that the game creators are the only ones who can decide whether or not a character is gay. We all interpret things differently, but from a strictly textual standpoint there is a lot of room for the individual to decide things.

For example, lets flip this question round: "From a strictly textual standpoint, who do we know is heterosexual?" The answer: Very few characters. Ronnie Bell clearly had a daughter, Emily, and this is enough to support that she is a heterosexual. Katsumi clearly has a crush on Tir, and I guess that textually this establishes her as a heterosexual, at least in the time frame we are provided.

But, from this textual standpoint, we see that surprisingly few characters have had their sexuality "confirmed" either way.

Now, let's add Contextual arguments to the mix. At this point, your own interpretation of the text is added to your own ideology and world-view, making your arguments highly subjective, even more highly subjective than any strict textual interpretation. Honestly, I think that this can lead to very interesting discussions, but it also keep in mind that is is difficult to change anyone else's mind, and in the end the argument might be fruitless, if entertaining.

I do agree with Deon and others here though. Millich, for example, was a good character simply because he was well conceived and written, and whatever his sexuality, that ended up being only a small portion of the whole. Millich was defined by his desire to right his past wrongs, which gives his character a moral basis, not a basely sexual one. This unfortunately is too common, to see homosexual characters defined entirely by their sexuality, not by their morals, intellects, or philosophies.

Also, I've always objected to calling characters like Millich "Narcissists." The word is derived from the Greek myth of Narcissus, who fell in love with himself after seeing his own reflection. This does not really sit well with me to sum up their characters. I think a better term might be "Dandy." Which, while it has been used as a slur against gays, also has a legitimate meaning beyond that. Here is a link to the Wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dandy

I personally think that would be a better term, even though characters like Augustine and Josephine have some narcissistic tendencies, it is more accurate to call them "dandy" in my opinion.
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Hirathien
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Hirathien » Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:35 pm

I'd say he has some Narcisstic tendencies, those stuff in his Castle as an example, that painting.

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Oppenheimer
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Oppenheimer » Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:24 am

That and his unit in the mass battles is called the Narcissists.

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Rooks
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Rooks » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:45 pm

HAHA true. But I'm merely saying that "Narcissist" is a pretty strong word for what he is. I mean, it is a psychological condition, always with negative connotations. I think it is just strange for anyone to claim that they are a narcissist. Besides, after he is freed from the black rune, he drops any real narcissistic tendencies he might have had. Narcissists -by definition- cannot admit failures or wrongs that they have commited, simply because they are blinded by self-glorification.

I'm not really criticizing anyone, I'm just saying the use of the term seems a bit off to me.
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Oppenheimer
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Oppenheimer » Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:45 pm

It's just used playfully with comical connotations rather than negative ones. The narcissists used in each game are used for comic relief. Milich is really the only one to take at all seriously.

But regardless, being gay and being a narcissist are not necessarily connected so a discussion of narcissism would be better off in its own thread.

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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Oppenheimer » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:45 pm

Auragaea wrote:Well, according to BioWare, it'd be a waste to create gay party members, because only a few of their player demographic will actually play them compared to bisexual characters where even straight people can have access to them.

Apparently they changed their minds in the most recent game. Dragon Age 2 has every character, except the DLC character, who you can romance as either a guy or girl.

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Nikisaur
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Nikisaur » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:05 pm

I find that kinda...weird. I dunno why. I like the idea of having gay and/oir bisexual characters in games. It's an important part of someone's identity (and thus character depth/development), but to make everyone into everyone? Unrealistic. Weird.

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LadyMikain
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby LadyMikain » Sat May 28, 2011 8:47 am

anita is definetely gay trust me and so is helga and gretchin. are all the narcissists supposed to be gay or are they just really camp?
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Hirathien
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Hirathien » Sun May 29, 2011 10:04 am

Seeing as Anita flirts so openly with Riou, I doubt she's gay.

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Nikisaur
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Nikisaur » Sun May 29, 2011 4:58 pm

Lady Mikain, please elaborate. I'd like to hear your reasons for saying that. Having masculine qualities does not make a woman gay.
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eldrasidar
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby eldrasidar » Mon May 30, 2011 12:02 am

most opinions on whether somebody is gay or heterosexual are entirely culturally conceived and are based on personality quirks rather any physical actions. in truth, there is no solid connection between the social being and the sexual being, and unless that person engages you in physical sexual activity, their sexual preference isn't going to define them as a person. let's face it, out of all of the people a single person might meet and interact with, they will probably only have sex with a tiny fraction of them, and so for most of that person's interactions, the sexual preferences of those they meet aren't going to be a big part of their identity, unless the particular people they meet choose to make it a large part. although in suikoden, clearly there are characters in love, or who are flirtatious, most of them are far more concerned with other issues to make their sexual urges a dominating part of their character.

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Re: Gay Characters

Postby DoReMi_Vampire » Mon May 30, 2011 6:22 am

Yeah, most Suikoden characters don't let their sexuality become such a major part of themselves (apart from Sheena maybe).
But even if they did, let's for example assume Kasios was homosexual, what did that add to the plot of SI?
What I'm saying is that the sexuality of any character doesn't matter to me if it doesn't have any clear effect on the story.

And I personally never thought of Anita as gay. Mostly cuz ever since the first time I recruited Anita and she started poking fun at Valeria's love-life I imagined that Anita possibly had stolen one of Valeria's former boyfriends or something like that, thus explaining the tense relationship between the two.
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