Why Colton didn't join Lazlo's army?

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Sasarai10
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Why Colton didn't join Lazlo's army?

Postby Sasarai10 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:49 am

I don't understand this logic. We see before the final battle telling to his son Helmut "There is more than Kooluk in this world.". Otherwise I don't think he'd ever forgive Helmut for joining the enemy's side.

Did it happen for gameplay reasons? Was he afraid of Troy if he found out he joined the enemy? Actually I thought he was recruitable back then, till I found out Snowe was the 108th Star. It'd be nice if he was an alternative choice between him and Snowe, like if you have gathered 107 other Stars,talk to him in his cell with Helmut in your active party, and let him join.

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Re: Why Colton didn't join Lazlo's army?

Postby sticky-runes » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:47 pm

I don't think Colton was afraid of Troy. He practically acted like a nanny towards Troy, offering him support and comfort whenever Troy got upset or worried about something. Troy and Colton were loyal to their nation. They were opposed to what Cray was doing, yes, but they weren't prepared to openly rebel against their nation to stop him. As loyal Kooluk soldiers they likely wanted to bring down the rebellion themselves and sort out Graham Cray afterwards. But they both failed - Colton was captured and Troy chose to go down with his ship.

Colton respected Helmut's decision to find a different path in life, but as an old man who had served kooluk his whole life, Colton probably didn't see betraying Kooluk as an option for himself.

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Re: Why Colton didn't join Lazlo's army?

Postby Sasarai10 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:55 pm

sticky-runes wrote:I don't think Colton was afraid of Troy. He practically acted like a nanny towards Troy, offering him support and comfort whenever Troy got upset or worried about something. Troy and Colton were loyal to their nation. They were opposed to what Cray was doing, yes, but they weren't prepared to openly rebel against their nation to stop him. As loyal Kooluk soldiers they likely wanted to bring down the rebellion themselves and sort out Graham Cray afterwards. But they both failed - Colton was captured and Troy chose to go down with his ship.

Colton respected Helmut's decision to find a different path in life, but as an old man who had served kooluk his whole life, Colton probably didn't see betraying Kooluk as an option for himself.


Makes sense. Also another surprising point is, you don't have the option to execute him unlike Helmut.

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Re: Why Colton didn't join Lazlo's army?

Postby sticky-runes » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:28 pm

Well, F#ck Me Sideways. Sasarai actually accepted an explanation that was offered to him, I must have woken up in an alternate universe this afternoon. :shock:

I guess there was no option to execute Colton because Elenor had questions for him. also, didn't Desmond actually suggest that Colton might join us, but she said "no I can see the conviction in his eyes" or something like that?

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Re: Why Colton didn't join Lazlo's army?

Postby Sasarai10 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:04 am

Yeah Desmond thought he'll join us. But I wondered why not, because we have the option to execute Helmut, who is a minor antagonist (before the battle against him, we see him only once) and not Colton who is a major one.

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Re: Why Colton didn't join Lazlo's army?

Postby sticky-runes » Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:39 am

There is a moment when Colton gives a speech to Troy about how it's "young men like you who will shape the future but it is my generation that bears the responsibility for that future" or something like that.

I guess Helmut didn't quite have Troy's resolve when it came to taking over the islands. Helmut probably felt like he and his soldiers were acting like bullies invading Razril when the people had already suffered enough, and he probably doesn't care enough for his own nation's plans to expand over the waters to stay loyal to them. Also, the knights of Razril rebelled against Helmut's lot when they saw Lazlo coming to liberate them, so that probably increased Helmut's reluctance to carry on controlling an island that didn't want to be controlled.

I've never actually chosen to execute Helmut - does he actually die, or is the story fixed so that he lives?

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Re: Why Colton didn't join Lazlo's army?

Postby s21 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:31 am

sticky-runes wrote:I've never actually chosen to execute Helmut - does he actually die, or is the story fixed so that he lives?


He'll die, you'll hear a sound of sword slashing after you choose to execute him

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Re: Why Colton didn't join Lazlo's army?

Postby Sasarai10 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:12 pm

But "canonically" he comes out alive at the end of the game...like Snowe.

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Re: Why Colton didn't join Lazlo's army?

Postby Antimatzist » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:29 am

Yeeah but that doesn't mean your choices don't have consequences. If you don't chose to recruit Mukumuku in II, you still won't get 108 SoDs, even though that's the canon ending.

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Re: Why Colton didn't join Lazlo's army?

Postby Sasarai10 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:23 am

Antimatzist wrote:Yeeah but that doesn't mean your choices don't have consequences. If you don't chose to recruit Mukumuku in II, you still won't get 108 SoDs, even though that's the canon ending.


http://suikosource.com/chars/list/?char_id=400

Here it says he joined along with the other 4 squirrels.

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Re: Why Colton didn't join Lazlo's army?

Postby sticky-runes » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:23 am

Colton probably wouldn't join you if you killed his son anyway.

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Re: Why Colton didn't join Lazlo's army?

Postby Sasarai10 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:23 am

sticky-runes wrote:Colton probably wouldn't join you if you killed his son anyway.



But when you capture him, he doesn't know that Helmut is a part of your army...no?

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Re: Why Colton didn't join Lazlo's army?

Postby sticky-runes » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:27 am

Dunno. Colton must have known that Helmut was stationed at Razril and was defeated by the rebels, whether he's executed or not.

And the chat between the two of them during the night before the final battle is supposed to be secret, I don't think either of them directly reveal their relationship to other members of Lazlo's army.

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Re: Why Colton didn't join Lazlo's army?

Postby Antimatzist » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:05 pm

Sasarai10 wrote:
Antimatzist wrote:Yeeah but that doesn't mean your choices don't have consequences. If you don't chose to recruit Mukumuku in II, you still won't get 108 SoDs, even though that's the canon ending.


http://suikosource.com/chars/list/?char_id=400

Here it says he joined along with the other 4 squirrels.

That's not my point. Only because something is canon does not mean that it influences your playthrough.

I guess Colton knew that Helmut is part of the Liberation Army, he'd be pretty stupid if he didn't.

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Re: Why Colton didn't join Lazlo's army?

Postby Sasarai10 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:22 pm

sticky-runes wrote:Dunno. Colton must have known that Helmut was stationed at Razril and was defeated by the rebels, whether he's executed or not.

And the chat between the two of them during the night before the final battle is supposed to be secret, I don't think either of them directly reveal their relationship to other members of Lazlo's army.


There's a hint somehow at some point. When Helmut joins after liberating Razril his line is like "What a stunning ship you have". But after youn capture Colton his line will change to "...".


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