Lepant Vs Lino En Kuldes

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sticky-runes
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Lepant Vs Lino En Kuldes

Postby sticky-runes » Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:12 pm

Just an excuse to discuss two of my fave characters, both with the same star and with similar roles (both become rulers of a nation, and both have a badass family) but with different personalities (Lino is chilled out while Lepant has a fiery temper)

Some points to discuss...

Who is the better fighter?
I'd say they're about even, though Lepant has the advantage of carrying a shield while Lino has a longer range weapon. It would be a fierce duel.
Who is the better father figure?
Probably Lino because he lets his daughter go off and become her own woman while Lepant constantly berates the kind of man Sheena is becoming.
Which one would you rather have as a leader?
I'd probably prefer to live on a sunny island. 8)
Which one would you NOT want as an enemy?
Lepant, most likely. Lino will fight his own battles, but his choice of armour isn't exactly intimidating and he's given up on Rune Cannons... meanwhile Lepant has some fierce battle-hardened former Imperials in his pocket and if you took him down you'd have to deal with his wife. :shock:

And, if Lino and Lepant met in person (unlikely because of the time frames, I know, but lets just say what if) how do you think they'd react to each other? Do you think they'd get along and chat about their family issues over a beer, or would it get rough?

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And if you wanna tell me which one you find more shaggable, that's okay, I'm sure you already know my answer to that. :mrgreen:

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BrucePrintscreen
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Re: Lepant Vs Lino En Kuldes

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:52 pm

Aaaah a good old fanboy conversation just as we like them :D

I'd say I prefer Lino for the following reasons:
-He bears on his shoulders at least 33% of all that's good in Suikoden IV
-He is an awesome father, seriously, when my daughter is a grownup I wish we'll be like Lino and Flare. And also, Flare is awesome, when you have a daughter who grew to be such a good person you are definitely the best dad ever.
-He is much more involved in the conflict than Lepant is. Seriously, what does Lepant do in Suikoden 1 apart from being here? Lino takes a very active part in the war.
-He is the kind of man who can be a king, a diplomat, a warrior, and befriending kind-hearted pirates. No prejudice in this man. I respect that.
-The thing I like the most about Lepant is his wife.

Okay now, sticky, Valeria or Kika? :P

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sticky-runes
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Re: Lepant Vs Lino En Kuldes

Postby sticky-runes » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:43 am

When I first played Suikoden Tactics I was worried that Lino was just gonna sit in his palace throughout the entire game while we do all the fighting, like Lepant does in Suikoden 2, so I was VERY happy when Lino showed up and joined us permanently later on.

I think the only thing Lepant really has over Lino is how intimidating he can be. He was ready to tear us a new asshole when he found out we'd stolen his family sword, and then he barged into Kraze's residence taking down guards when Eileen was captured.

Lino can kick ass, but he's so damn nice! He came with us to Na Nal saying the chief was a difficult man to deal with, but when we get there, Lino allows the chief to talk down to us, lock us in a cell, and then make act as thieves to steal medicine from the elves. Then Lino apologizes to the elf elder for stealing the medicine and tries to console Axel after seeing the villagers killed by Kooluk soldiers.

In the end, Lino's peaceable ways did work in our favor, but I reckon if Lepant were in Lino's position during those events he'd have told the island chief to f#ck off and either drive the Kooluk out of the island without the chief's help, or just left everyone on the island to kill each other and then claim it later on.

If a Toran Republic vs Island Nations Federation battle was to break out, I think it would play out something like this...

Alen & Grenseal vs Sigurd & Hervey
Valeria vs Kika
Kasumi vs Mizuki
Kwanda vs Axel
Sonya vs Katarina
Eileen vs Flare

Valeria and the knights would take down Kika and her pirates because the former Imperials have superior armour and magic on their side.
Mizuki would slay Kasumi with minimal effort because Mizuki just has to say "Look, there's Tir" and then stab Kasumi in the throat.
Kwanda would hack Axel to pieces because he is a seasoned, brutal general, not a daddy's boy living on a quaint little island full of weaklings.
Katarina is a much better military woman than Sonya, because Katarina is vigilant and go-getting, and she and her knights would smash Sonya's forces to bits while Sonya is busy sighing and pining over Teo.
Flare is a fearless huntress who personally patrols the seas against pirates and her arrows will do more damage than Eileen's darts.

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Re: Lepant Vs Lino En Kuldes

Postby Wolkendrache » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:11 am

If the Isl. Nat. try to invade Toran, they would just shatter from running against a wall. If Toran tries to invade the Isl. Nat., it would take no effort to wipe away the “northerners” in a single naval battle. One party has no experience in offshore naval battles, the other one is far inferior regarding continental large-scale open field wars.

Sonya could be more important than Katarina. Perhaps Sonya and her forces alone could win the battle against invading islanders at the fortress of Shasarazade. She’s superior on rivers and lakes (and has appropriate vessels). But then again, even if she fails and the islanders reach the shores of lake Toran, they would soon be smashed or trampled down.

In the duels, those characters one likes more will win, of course :wink:
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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Re: Lepant Vs Lino En Kuldes

Postby sticky-runes » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:51 am

^ Liking the Game of Thrones reference! :)

Yeah, but what was Sonya doing the whole time we were gathering a rebellion in the middle of Lake Toran? She could have come along and cut off our retreat while we were fleeing from Teo's armored cavalry, and that would've been the end of it. At least Suikoden 2 explains that the Highlanders suck at water based combat so didn't stand a chance of trying to take us from across the lake, but Sonya was the Imperial bloody naval commander. I don't know if there is an explanation for why Sheherazade stays idle all the way through the game, but she seems pretty useless aside from being a good combat character. Bah, I need to start a Katarina appreciation thread.

EDIT:
Wolkendrache wrote:
In the duels, those characters one likes more will win, of course :wink:

I do prefer Sigurd and Hervey as characters, but yeah, I still think they'd get their butts kicked by Alen and Grenseal.

Back on topic: Lets not forget that Lino had the foresight to prepare for an invasion by having the world's largest warship secretly constructed in his Batcave. Lepant was quite content to sit idly by and ignore the Empire's activities, until his family was threatened.

And its been speculated (at least by me and Brucie, and on this site's character profiles) that Eileen is the real power behind the throne of Toran. Lino achieved quite a lot without having a Lady Macbeth to egg him on.

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Re: Lepant Vs Lino En Kuldes

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:22 am

I seem to remember there is a NPC in Suikoden II in Gregminster who says that Eileen is widely rumoured to be the real power behind the throne, implying that everyone actually knows it is the case. If the Toranese were a bit more progressive they would just have elected Hilary... sorry Eileen as president instead of Lepant. You would think with all the awesome women who played such a major role in their liberation from the imperial tyranny they would have been more grateful to females.

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Re: Lepant Vs Lino En Kuldes

Postby sticky-runes » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:03 am

Well its not like Scarlet Moon was ever sexist to begin with, they had tons of women in the Imperial army including Valeria, Sonya and all those female soldiers we fight in random battles, and Windy was the highest ranking magician in the Empire. Not forgetting that a man who obsessed over fashion and flowers could be a highly respected general as well. The empire might have become corrupt and greedy, but I don't see there being any of that sort of discrimination going on. Highland, on the other hand, was definitely a male dominated kingdom.

Though if there were any chauvinists in the Toranese government, they might condemn Eileen as being another Windy trying to seize power!

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Pyriel
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Re: Lepant Vs Lino En Kuldes

Postby Pyriel » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:30 am

I think you're mixing up when Lepant talks about how McDohl was meant to run the country and Eileen talks him out of it with some other NPC text. Eilieen is only mentioned by name twice in the game, and once is an investigation of Sheena: "Sheena has a soft spot for his mother, Eileen. I'll bet she really babied him when he was a kid.". However, one NPC does say: "President Lepant's wife, Eileen, is a very kind person. She's even kind to me...I'm grateful." Other than that, I don't find any reference to Lepant being his wife's mouthpiece.

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BrucePrintscreen
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Re: Lepant Vs Lino En Kuldes

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:53 pm

@sticky: even more so, then! Eileen for president :P Or I think actually Warren would be the most logical choice for a successor.

@Pyriel: thanks! I really wonder where you get all these infos for. Do you have a list of every NPC dialogues or something like this?

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Re: Lepant Vs Lino En Kuldes

Postby Wolkendrache » Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:30 pm

sticky-runes wrote:Back on topic: Lets not forget that Lino had the foresight to prepare for an invasion by having the world's largest warship secretly constructed in his Batcave. Lepant was quite content to sit idly by and ignore the Empire's activities, until his family was threatened.

Lino was already king of Obel before the war, planning ahead is expected of him. Lepant was just a merchant and squire with a good reputation. After they became president/chairman they both did an excellent job I guess. Look, some SoD in the novel were focusing on their career (working as official + martial arts training), neglecting their private life until their wives had an affair. They killed their wives brutally and then turned outlaws claiming to “act on heaven’s behalf”. The Suikoden authors knew that this wouldn’t really please modern people, so Lepant turned out to be the opposite: he neglected a career as official because he thought it would bring harm to his family. He is worried about Sheena making trouble in the neighborhood (and in fact he does). From this perspective, it would be wrong to expect more interest in political matters. But yeah, if he was a general or even a king like Lino, things would be different.
BrucePrintscreen wrote:I seem to remember there is a NPC in Suikoden II in Gregminster who says that Eileen is widely rumoured to be the real power behind the throne, implying that everyone actually knows it is the case. If the Toranese were a bit more progressive they would just have elected Hilary... sorry Eileen as president instead of Lepant. You would think with all the awesome women who played such a major role in their liberation from the imperial tyranny they would have been more grateful to females.

I think rumors are often a sensationalized version of the truth. You said yourself that Lepant is often times hot-tempered and rash, so that’s where Eileen is really helpful I guess. Think of Arshtat and Ferid: of course they take counsel together, but I wouldn’t say Ferid is de facto the true leader of the country.
Here is my prognosis for Eileen’s career: Lepant has a writing desk affair with a young female official, and he will be caught red-handed. Eileen will forgive him, but Lepant will not be re-elected. A freak is elected who will wage war against a far away southern continent after claiming that a handful of southern thugs made the Gregminster Palace collapse. After two legislative periods the people think it’s time for a president of a different race, so the first elven president is elected. After two more legislative periods, I’d say Eileen will be elected next.
sticky-runes wrote:Bah, I need to start a Katarina appreciation thread.

Go ahead. And I’ll post another Suikoden song in the fanwork section to appease you accordingly…
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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Re: Lepant Vs Lino En Kuldes

Postby sticky-runes » Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:53 pm

Warren and Eileen were both known to be kind and peace loving types. They might be lovable people, but probably not the ideal choice for president, especially considering the state of Toran at the time - the country was recovering from tearing itself apart and very vulnerable to being invaded by neighbouring kingdoms. They needed a leader who was stern and steadfast, and lepant seems like a good choice.

Eileen probably wouldn't want to be president any way, the way the old man talks about her in the palace makes me think she was doing a lot of good will work, tending to elderly and orphans who were suffering from the war, while lepant was more focused on foreign threats. I see her quietly dealing with issues he can't attend to, similar to how flare cares for the people of obel that her father is unable to see to.

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Re: Lepant Vs Lino En Kuldes

Postby Pyriel » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:35 pm

BrucePrintscreen wrote:@Pyriel: thanks! I really wonder where you get all these infos for. Do you have a list of every NPC dialogues or something like this?

I'm slowly loading all the text into a database. Konami didn't compile it into dictionary files or give it any structure, so this is my way of creating some and potentially facilitating translations.

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Re: Lepant Vs Lino En Kuldes

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:42 am

Wolkendrache wrote:Here is my prognosis for Eileen’s career: Lepant has a writing desk affair with a young female official, and he will be caught red-handed. Eileen will forgive him, but Lepant will not be re-elected. A freak is elected who will wage war against a far away southern continent after claiming that a handful of southern thugs made the Gregminster Palace collapse. After two legislative periods the people think it’s time for a president of a different race, so the first elven president is elected. After two more legislative periods, I’d say Eileen will be elected next.



You just won the Academy Award for best Suikoden fanfiction ever.

Also, who that freak would be? I think, someone who ruled a backwards place in a very backwards way: Governor Grady.

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Re: Lepant Vs Lino En Kuldes

Postby Sasarai10 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:30 am

Lino definitely. Both gameplay and plot-wise. He is pretty unique for a King.
Just like Elenor said, he hardly looks like a King. When we go to the Nest of Pirates to meet Kika and her gang he really looks like one of the pirates, instead of a King. :lol:
When I played the game for the first time I was shocked when I found out Lino was the King. I thought Setsu was the King actually. :lol:

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Re: Lepant Vs Lino En Kuldes

Postby sticky-runes » Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:37 am

I do like the part where we can ask Setsu if he is the king, and Setsu replies with "Our king is a most magnificent man, that you would mistake somebody like me for him is... ahem, quite ridiculous."

I like Setsu. I like how he values the lives of the royal family above your own safety, and tells you to use the rune to defend the kingdom. He also questions your choice if you put Lino in the separate team at the end of the game. Lazlo doesn't get to experience having a clingy attendant like most of the other heroes, so meeting an overly protective servant who kind of puts you at the bottom of the pile is a refreshing experience for a Suikoden game. Just think - if Lazlo hadn't been separated from his family as a baby, then he might have grown up with Setsu bowing and scraping to his every move!


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