Why do people hate Chaco?

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Wolkendrache
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Why do people hate Chaco?

Postby Wolkendrache » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:24 am

I've read a lot of rants against him throughout this board, so now I've given some thoughts to it...

In the novel, the respective star (Tenkou, no. 36) is a guy called Yan Qing. He is the steward of Lu Junyi (Tengou, no. 2, which would be Lepant and Ridley etc.). Among all the stars, Yan Qing is probably the one with the most talents, second to none in the field of arts, the most charismatic of all, and a great fighter (crossbow and wrestling). Due to his talents, he is often dispatched on missions that no other star could do, this makes him one of the most prominent and important characters.

Eileen is charismatic, but that’s all. She’s boring, doesn’t do anything important, and every chauvinist would say “yes, that how a woman should be”, yawn. I can’t say anything about Dios. As for Flare, she’s charismatic as well and even more prominent, but she can’t do anything that others couldn’t. And Toma, well, I like this boy’s spirit, but he isn’t really important.

Chaco may be the least charismatic, but he can do stuff that others can’t: fly. That’s why he plays a key role in special missions throughout the story. Moreover he’s a surprisingly good fighter. Actually Ridley is more of an insult compared to Lu Junyi than Chaco compared to Yan Qing. This may be just my opinion, but Chaco deserves most to be Tenkou star, and he's one of the most elaborated Tenkou characters.

Apart from a comparison to the novel, just look at this guy’s background. The winger’s have been either ignored or even discriminated by both humans and kobolds all the time, so that’s just how a 13 year old winger brat from the bronx handles it. But he’s not just a brat: he loves Tworiver and his people and he is willing to give his life for them (Sid for example doesn’t give a sh*t).

So why do people hate him?
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: Why do people hate Chaco?

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:39 am

For some peculiar reason, when people steal from me it doesn't endear me to them.
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sticky-runes
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Re: Why do people hate Chaco?

Postby sticky-runes » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:43 am

OK, here goes.

Even by thief standards, he's unlikeable.

Krin, for instance, tried to drug us and rob us in our sleep, but I actually found him amusing. Ledon succeeded in drugging us and robbing us in our sleep but he learned his lesson, and he had kind of a double act going on with Kessler, which I found amusing, especially when they meet Ronnie Bell. Nalkul and Champo stole from us, but the ailurophile in me can't stay mad at a cat for very long, and they do kick ass in Tactics.
These guys might not have been very popular among the cast, they even irritate characters and get threatened by them. But as the player and audience member, I thought they had some fun dialogue, and their little antics put a smile on my face.

Chaco, on the other hand, robs me blind before I even see him. If I'm playing a RPG and you steal all of my cash just as I'm about to explore a bunch of new towns, then you BETTER have something good to make up for it. What has Chaco got, except for a cocky attitude? He pulls out the race card at every opportunity, he doesn't really form any interesting relationships with any other characters, besides Sid, who bullies him. Nobody in his village even likes him, his grandmother fobs him off on us because she's sick of his BS. He just irritates people and insults them. Even after "befriending" Chaco he calls Riou a small fry.

And the fact that Chaco becomes a key character makes him worse, not better. There are some respectable members among the winged horde - could they not at least give us one SOD winger who is a bit more reasonable towards humans?

Chaco is essentially representing his people among the 108 stars. And our reasons for disliking him far outweigh our reasons for feeling any appreciation towards this scruffy little guano-faced cunt.

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Re: Why do people hate Chaco?

Postby Wolkendrache » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:22 pm

Raww Le Klueze wrote:For some peculiar reason, when people steal from me it doesn't endear me to them.

Interesting how some people always identify 100% with the hero. Chaco’s reason for stealing from “you” was anything but peculiar. At first I thought “give me my money back, rascal!” too, but I shifted towards “damn, if I was a winger I would’ve done the same”.

@sticky-runes: So you say he’s a scruffy little guano-faced cunt who plays the race card all the time? :lol:

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a Chaco fan. Yes, he’s annoying, but there are too many even more annoying plus boring plus story-irrelevant, so I can’t really hate him. From a pool of Chaco, Freed (sir yes sir), Gengen (captain Gengen, please), Zamza (I’m the perfectest of all), Nina (where’s Flik?), Clive (hurry!!!!!), Sid (Chaaaacooooo), and many more: Chaco any day! Go on calling Riou small fry, I’m sick of all this “yes my 16yo lord”-BS.
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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Pyriel
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Re: Why do people hate Chaco?

Postby Pyriel » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:55 pm

When Raww said "peculiar" he was being ironic about his own reasons for disliking Chaco. I don't think he's confused about why Chaco is a thief.

He's an annoying little tosser who's forced on you way too often. And personally, I hate it when games force you to accept that someone is going to steal non-story items from you for random reasons, and there's nothing you can do about it. I want the option to club him within an inch of his life, and then if he manages to spit out his sob-story, I'll give him a few thousand potch so he can eat for a year or two, but not the entire 150,000 I've carefully saved while trying to get Double-Beat Runes.

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Re: Why do people hate Chaco?

Postby Wolkendrache » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:37 pm

Pyriel wrote:When Raww said "peculiar" he was being ironic about his own reasons for disliking Chaco. I don't think he's confused about why Chaco is a thief.

I know, I got that. My point is, if you understand why Chaco is a thief (I mean you're able to put yourself into Chaco's position), then it's hard to dislike him imo.
Pyriel wrote:He's an annoying little tosser who's forced on you way too often. And personally, I hate it when games force you to accept that someone is going to steal non-story items from you for random reasons, and there's nothing you can do about it. I want the option to club him within an inch of his life, and then if he manages to spit out his sob-story, I'll give him a few thousand potch so he can eat for a year or two, but not the entire 150,000 I've carefully saved while trying to get Double-Beat Runes.

"These stupid kobolds and humans. Among the three leaders of Two River, our Susu is the wisest, how dare they just ignore her! They're just sending envoys through our area and won't listen to our opinion. Now I'll teach them a lesson. I'll steal all the money from the ridiculously rich boy in red and all his double-beat-runes along with it. Then I'm gonna buy weapons and armor for us wingers, so we'll defend this town while humans and kobolds are being foolish..." :wink:

I don't like Chaco enough to write a laudation for him, but I feel someone has to protect him from these awesome but excessive rants. 8)
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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Re: Why do people hate Chaco?

Postby sticky-runes » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:14 pm

Wolkendrache wrote:
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a Chaco fan. Yes, he’s annoying, but there are too many even more annoying plus boring plus story-irrelevant, so I can’t really hate him. From a pool of Chaco, Freed (sir yes sir), Gengen (captain Gengen, please), Zamza (I’m the perfectest of all), Nina (where’s Flik?), Clive (hurry!!!!!), Sid (Chaaaacooooo), and many more: Chaco any day! Go on calling Riou small fry, I’m sick of all this “yes my 16yo lord”-BS.


I like Freed. So he's not some rugged, outdoorsy mercenary, he is a loving husband and hard worker, plus i wear glasses myself, so seeing a mild mannered gentleman get into sword fights and casting lightning spells while wearing specs is kind of exhilarating for me. He's setting an example for us nerds.

Seeing Gengen light up after Leona appeals to his sense of honor is adorable. I probably would have used Gengen a lot more if he didn't get upstaged by us recruiting an actual dog (Shiro).

And as nauseating as Nina's crushing over Flik is, I was actually impressed by that bimbo turning out to be a spy for Shin and Teresa and rallying the people of Greenhill to support her. I even felt for Nina when she said she couldn't stand by and let Teresa die.

I never felt for Chaco. The game made him annoying to the point I wouldn't care if Riou wrapped Chaco up and delivered him to Highland with a note saying "Dear Luca, I hope this hideous winged creature will make a nice scabbard for your sword. If not, then feed it to that big glowing wolf thingy you summoned over Muse. See you on the battlefield."

There are plenty of rough mannered SODs who aren't annoying little gobshites like Chaco.

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Re: Why do people hate Chaco?

Postby wataru14 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:08 pm

sticky-runes FTW.
And Pyriel's comment is the same reason I hate Yuffie.

My biggest problem with Chaco is that he cannot seem to understand why you would be mad at him. That is the most maddening thing. If you try to reject his offer to join you, one of the things he will say is, "C'mon, man, they're just wings." I wanted to drop a Bolt of Wrath on him right there. I don't hate you because of your wings, dumb shoot. I think people with wings are pretty cool (except for the chicken feet thing ... that's just creepy). I hate you because you stole from me. And it's not like he used the money he stole to open a children's hospital or to try to help wingerkind in any way. Susu tells him to return your money and he still won't. He had a pretty rousing speech at the gates of Two River, but I would have rather had Susu say that and Chaco die in a fire.

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Re: Why do people hate Chaco?

Postby Wolkendrache » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:10 pm

sticky-runes wrote:I like Freed. So he's not some rugged, outdoorsy mercenary, he is a loving husband and hard worker, plus i wear glasses myself, so seeing a mild mannered gentleman get into sword fights and casting lightning spells while wearing specs is kind of exhilarating for me. He's setting an example for us nerds.

Andarc: “I’ll dedicate the rest of my life…“
Seneca: “Shut the f*ck up!”
sticky-runes wrote:I never felt for Chaco. The game made him annoying to the point I wouldn't care if Riou wrapped Chaco up and delivered him to Highland with a note saying "Dear Luca, I hope this hideous winged creature will make a nice scabbard for your sword. If not, then feed it to that big glowing wolf thingy you summoned over Muse. See you on the battlefield."

Best rant so far! :lol:
Why don’t you ask Luca to trade Chaco for Rowd, he deserves some beatings. In any case, don’t forget to take off Chaco’s Fire Sealing, Mother Earth and Fury Runes, otherwise this little pest might return secretly the same night, take away your wallet again and replace it with Luca’s head. And then the next morning while the Beautiful Morning theme is playing...

*sigh* You guys… you’ve forgiven commanders who killed thousands of your troops, husbands who prefer to die in battle instead of caring for their wives and children, a kobold commander who loves birching, the guy who sullies your name by pretending to be you, the guy who sent you to a suicide mission and sent hundreds to death later, and finally the guy who killed Anabelle and prolonged this war even after Luca’s death. And then yet, your mercy fails on a winged teenager who took away your money for just a single day. Shame on you…
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Pyriel
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Re: Why do people hate Chaco?

Postby Pyriel » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:02 pm

Well, you've sort of touched on the problem. Some of those other characters can be ignored pretty easily. Even though they're terrible, they're little more than props and don't really get in the way. The others are decent enough as characters that you can view them through the lens of the proffered story without much trouble. Chaco is just a transparent and hollow complication who moves on to become a full-fledged irritation, and that's the only dimension his character has beyond the cliche minority aspect that's abandoned after about 15 minutes.

Maybe it's that his personality is handled too realistically. He's supposed to be about 13. Many 13-year-olds could be strangled and the communities around them would notice a marked improvement in quality of life in the short-term.

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Re: Why do people hate Chaco?

Postby sticky-runes » Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:20 am

Wolkendrache wrote:
*sigh* You guys… you’ve forgiven commanders who killed thousands of your troops, husbands who prefer to die in battle instead of caring for their wives and children, a kobold commander who loves birching, the guy who sullies your name by pretending to be you, the guy who sent you to a suicide mission and sent hundreds to death later, and finally the guy who killed Anabelle and prolonged this war even after Luca’s death. And then yet, your mercy fails on a winged teenager who took away your money for just a single day. Shame on you…


If we don't have husbands and fathers willing to die for their country, then we won't get any where. Yoshino even says she loves Freed BECAUSE of his sense of duty, not in spite of it. We're living in a time of war, people have to be willing to make sacrifices, hence Riou giving up the role of Nanami's cute little brother to become a commander.

And who says I forgave Jess? That guy's an even bigger cunt than Chaco, if such a thing is possible.

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Re: Why do people hate Chaco?

Postby Wolkendrache » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:32 am

There are people who’d hijack an airplane and crush it into a building, or drive a car into an enemy town with a bomb on board. Afterwards they’re celebrated as heroes by their people. These guys have a heart in the shape of their land, and it is growing as desperation grows. As soon as their heart is bigger than their brain, they would execute this kind of stuff. Now, Freed and Yoshino seem to be willing to sacrifice their lives right from the start, in other words, they’ve got no brains.

If they were high-ranking commanders, I’d think about giving them the choice, but they’re just ordinary Private Ryans. For Sanae’s sake, I’d detach them to stay at the castle where you can play a mini-game with them: Battleships (I assume you know this oldschool game). Upon every successful strike, you’ll see an animation of Freed saluting, saying 七生報國 (seven lives for my country!) while nosediving a flying vessel into a warship. They're just too 2nd WW japanese cliche.
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Re: Why do people hate Chaco?

Postby Sasarai10 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:17 am

Basically i didn't give a sh*t when he stole my money....i'd make much more by fighting the monsters in the sewers.

Anyway he's kinda annoying tbh...Sid is way much better and cooler as well

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Re: Why do people hate Chaco?

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:57 am

A character that is forced into you as often as Chaco should be more likeable than that.

Wolkendrache wrote:
Eileen is charismatic, but that’s all. She’s boring, doesn’t do anything important, and every chauvinist would say “yes, that how a woman should be”, yawn.





Suikoden is full of diverse feminine figures that ranges from Yoshino to Valeria with anything inbetween, if there is one thing that Suikoden is not it's chauvinist, it pretty much tells you that a woman can be anything she wants and still be a valuable member of society in living according to her own choices

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Re: Why do people hate Chaco?

Postby sticky-runes » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:50 pm

BrucePrintscreen wrote:A character that is forced into you as often as Chaco should be more likeable than that.

Wolkendrache wrote:
Eileen is charismatic, but that’s all. She’s boring, doesn’t do anything important, and every chauvinist would say “yes, that how a woman should be”, yawn.





Suikoden is full of diverse feminine figures that ranges from Yoshino to Valeria with anything inbetween, if there is one thing that Suikoden is not it's chauvinist, it pretty much tells you that a woman can be anything she wants and still be a valuable member of society in living according to her own choices


Plus Eileen gets the last word in any dispute with her husband. Surely a chauvinist would not approve of that kind of behavior in a wife.


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