Yuber's Delusion

[Lemmy Claypool]

Did everyone put their frilliest panties on this morning before logging in? Jeez. Don't make me come back there or I'm turning this car around and we're going straight back home.

When reading Aerolithe's response I didn't get the impression he was trying to be dismissive - just answering the question posed. He even said as much:

But maybe you meant to discuss it? This is actually just a forum for asking questions you don't know about. That's what I was answering. There's a completely different thread, 'Character Theories', about discussing and debating specific things like this. Was that your intention?

Don't worry about the location of this thread though Sylo I'd say it's fine where it is. It seems to me that you may have been taken aback by how quickly this thread seemed to wind up "case closed" (one reply lol) but Pyriel is correct, it would be a massive surprise to myself, and I'm sure most of the community, if there were ever any new worthwhile theory fodder yet to be discovered in this series. That's why I want a Suiko VI so badly anyway, so I can talk to strangers about video games on the Internet.

That being said with regard to the discussion; if I were in Yuber's position I would probably say something along those same lines. Let's assume he doesn't necessarily know everything about the True Runes, therefore he may not know that the Bright Shield rune isn't a full-fledged True Rune. But to be honest I think the most likely reason is just that "True Rune" is still probably the quickest way of categorising it's power and is also the closest fit when categorising it. As others have said, it's a snappier way to say it than "Component Rune" or "Rune Of Greater Power Than A Regular Rune But Not Quite A Full True Rune".

Please don't be discouraged from starting these kinds of discussions though Sylo, you just need to expect the abrupt and disgruntled responses of a jaded fanbase jonesing for a fresh fix of new game info that seems like it's never going to come every now and then.

[Nikisaur]

Man. This forum is so cold sometimes, I just wanted to put my two cents in to people who were gonna post and sound mean. It happens a lot and I was just trying to be positive and make sure Sylo didn't feel on his own - in case he did. I dunno.

[Pyriel]

Maybe it would help if you explain what you think is mean in this thread. My last post not withstanding because he hit two of my pet peeves, and I'm well aware it took on an adversarial tone. Aside from that, it just reads like a matter-of-fact discussion to me, and rereading it, you can see where people started to back off a bit because Sylo seemed a little troubled. The fact that it didn't work just means we didn't guess the right way to go about simultaneously disagreeing with and rolling out the welcome mat for him (her?).

[Hirathien]

Man. This forum is so cold sometimes, I just wanted to put my two cents in to people who were gonna post and sound men. It happens a lot and I was just trying to be positive and make sure Sylo didn't feel on his own - in case he did. I dunno.

I think the coldness comes from all the lack of smileys. It's rather hard to come across as witty, ironic and even nice if you don't use the right smileys or format the text a bit. It's nice though that you were looking out for him!

Back on topic I think he wanted to discuss this matter a bit, although the topic is well answered and dealt with in most cases.

[Nikisaur]

I just wanted to put my two cents in to people who were gonna post and sound mean.

The thread wasn't mean yet, Pyriel. This forum often is quite cold to new members coming in (I know a few who don't bother with it anymore for this reason). I just wanted to add a positive, friendly note to the end of my opinion, rather than being strictly clinical, so that a new member wouldn't feel like everyone was so serious.

I just wanted to add a line in so that people reading the thread would remember that pointing out stuff like this is what forums are for. I was just being supportive and friendly to a new forum member. It wasn't supposed to be a big deal.

[Lemmy Claypool]

It would be unbelieveably ironic if this thread derailed so far off topic that I had to lock it.

[Aerolithe Lion]

I've seen the light, sylo is absolutely right. In gonna email suikoden and give them a piece of my mind

[Sylo]

I've seen the light, sylo is absolutely right

Right about what exactly?

I detect some sarcasm here...

[Aerolithe Lion]

Just trying to bring the topic back on track

[Nikisaur]

I dunno. Yuber definitely has a True Rune, right? The Eigthfold or whatever. Safe to say he'd know enough about them to recognise one. I also assume he'd know the legend of the sword and shield at least, too. But as for all the technicalities surrounding whether the Bright Shield is a full True Rune or not may not be to his knowledge. Also, he has just been defeated in this scene, so perhaps he is not being as specific and clear as he might otherwise be. It could really go either way.

[Aerolithe Lion]

And on that topic, where was it confirmed that the Bright Shield Rune won't act as a true rune on its own, like the Back Gate Rune?

Did they say he definitely won't get unending life, or power beyond that of a typical rune?

[Nikisaur]

Yep, Murayama confirmed that The Black Sword and Bright Shield do not grant agelessness (Insert legit source here). I suppose the power is stronger than that of typical runes, like Jowy holding the beast rune at bay or Riou clearing the magic misty stuff in Mt Rauketi (spelling?) although that was a bit game mechanic-y.

The front and back halves of the Gate Rune do grant agelessness though, which is how Windy could run into Ted 300 years later and Leknaat can be in all games.

[Hirathien]

The Bright Shield and Black Sword rune acts like coffee beans and water. Mix them together, you get coffee.

The Gate rune is coffee. Split it in two and you will not have coffee beans and water again, but an equal amount of coffee in any container you wish to have it in. This case, the sisters.

[Aerolithe Lion]

Yep, Murayama confirmed that The Black Sword and Bright Shield do not grant agelessness (Insert legit source here). I suppose the power is stronger than that of typical runes, like Jowy holding the beast rune at bay or Riou clearing the magic misty stuff in Mt Rauketi (spelling?) although that was a bit game mechanic-y.

The front and back halves of the Gate Rune do grant agelessness though, which is how Windy could run into Ted 300 years later and Leknaat can be in all games.

Perhaps that's due to the rune's choosing. Because it fully expects one to kill the other before agelessness is ever an issue

[Aerolithe Lion]

Alright boys and girls, buckle you chinstraps...

In the case of the Sylo vs Yuber's Sanity, I give exhibit A in the Defendant's repudiation of being 'just completely delusional':

In Suikoden III, while bringing up the flame champion to an ignorant Hugo, Lilly sidetracks the discussion by commenting that she actually met a true rune bearer once, but she does not remember this. Obviously, there are many true runes floating around during Suikoden II. However, there are only two particular ones that fit the context of her comment.

1. The Blue Moon Rune
When I first played Suikoden III, I had not played a previous Suikoden game. So when she said this, I became curious and found this site. I read her entire backstory, and then the backstory of her Suikoden II captor. Immediately, Neclord seemed as the obvious innuendo to what she's referring. However! I find 2 faults with this. The first, major one is the rune he carries. No one was familiar with it at all in Suikoden 1. It may be that they hadn't built his story that far in advance, but the fact remains that no one knew he was a true rune bearer until Sierra mentioned it in SII. But also, it was not proclaimed to the entire world. Her father wouldn't be reminding her later in life that she was captured by a true rune bearer earlier in life, as he probably didn't even know. Why would Lilly remember absolutely NOTHING about the man who imprisoned her, except that she knows without a doubt he's a true rune bearer, after no one had any clue outside of the intimate group that came to slay him. It's not as if Sierra and her coven are world renowned and Neclord is famous for stealing that rune. Second fault: she said she "met" a true rune bearer. Even if you don't recall the events in question, as in this case Lilly would claim not to, I don't think you can refer to being imprisoned and possibly sacrificed against your will when you were 6 as 'meeting' someone. And if she doesn't remember it at all, does her father remind her of it to the extent she comments about it vaguely to other people? Not likely. In Kidd's investigation of her, he says, "They say that as a child, she defeated a vampire lord who tried to kidnap her...but that story sounds fishy to me." Most likely a rumor SHE started, and she would probably proclaim such whenever speaking of him.

2. The Bright Shield Rune
Same two observations as the Blue Moon Rune. First, everyone and their brother knew Riou had it. It was part of his mythos, and why people thought of him as a true legend of the Dunan Unification. This is proven when Hoi is impersonating Riou, and the townspeople demand that the only way they know if he's the true hero is if he shows them is rune, The Bright Shield.

Secondly, not only did Lilly formally meet Riou, but she wouldn't refer to her encounter with him in any other manner if she doesn't remember stuff that happened when she was six. However, her father would probably remind her that Riou came to their country, stopped a great attack, and she was introduced to him.

So with this, whether Yuber may or may not be able to sense true runes isn't an issue, because it was pretty common knowledge that Riou had the BS rune. Furthermore, I do doubt Konami would make identical 'scrypt errors' in different games when referring to this rune, so I believe it is, indeed, recognized as the True Rune of Beginning, even though it's technically not in its entirity and doesn't give agelessness.

Conclusion: Yuber is, indeed, not off his rocker.