Suikoden II Best Ending just doesn't set well with me

Ask questions about the events that take place during the Suikoden games themselves.
Palladiamors
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Re: Suikoden II Best Ending just doesn't set well with me

Postby Palladiamors » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:45 am

I'm actually not a fan of Jowy. I did not approve of the way he did what he did at all. That being said, I did like the best ending. I felt like it was a return to what the three of them wanted. I don't like it most of all. If I had my druthers, it'd be an ending where they all three stayed to make the country a better place, and where Riou could be close to Eilee...

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jin022
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Re: Suikoden II Best Ending just doesn't set well with me

Postby jin022 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:24 pm

it was the best ending for riou, jowy and nanami.because it was all they wanted, to be together, the three of them and to live in peace. but it the ending was a cliff hanger. grr!

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Nikisaur
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Re: Suikoden II Best Ending just doesn't set well with me

Postby Nikisaur » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:20 am

I didn't mind it. I mean, it was told from Riou's perspective, one of the main elements was him not wanting to fight his friend, even though the Rune of Beginning wanted them to. It's the ending that says something about friendship - being able to survive the power of a true rune etc. I thought it fitted the story, and I liek how it was left reasonably open for some kind of later appearance in the series.
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Re: Suikoden II Best Ending just doesn't set well with me

Postby WichitaQ » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:12 pm

you're implying that Dunan would have needed Riou to continue governing the people. leaderless chaos? i have seen none of that. i mean, for the sake of argument, Tir left the country in the same way as Riou did, and yet you see the Gregminster in its full glory in S2, even though it's not Tir that's leading it.

and yeah, if you're trying to scale that war down to two figures, then scale them to Shu and Leon, not Riou and Jowy.

and yeah, are you entirely sure the thing would have ended better if Jowy stayed with Riou all the time? you'd have hell of a trouble just defeating Luca, without even mentioning the rest of the country.

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Scotts
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Re: Suikoden II Best Ending just doesn't set well with me

Postby Scotts » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:56 pm

In my opinion, it was always Jowy's intention of going down. He was the misguided hero persuaded by the Black Sword rune.

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Re: Suikoden II Best Ending just doesn't set well with me

Postby DoReMi_Vampire » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:44 am

Personally I like the Best Ending of SII, mostly for the same reasons that most other people have already mentioned.

The thing that actually does make me mad about is the realization that Shu is a complete asshole. If anything I think it's the Bad Ending that makes less sense. Riou loses everything he fought for (Jowy and Nanami) when in fact Shu could have told him about Nanami despite Jowy's death. Yet he chooses to keep silent about it knowing this would be the last nail in Riou's coffin.
Don't get me wrong though, from a storytelling-perspective it does make sense for the game to keep all the twists secret for the Best Ending alone. Plus Shu already showed he was willing to use Pilika as a shield against Jowy so I guess it wasn't completely uncalled for. :(
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dragons_descent4
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Re: Suikoden II Best Ending just doesn't set well with me

Postby dragons_descent4 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:08 am

I really liked the best ending in II,it tied right back to the beginning when Jowy said "If we make it but some how get separated let's come back to this spot..."-totally paraphrased-but that moment was so pure,and the fact that they stuck to it really gave a romantic sense to their friendship,where it definitely gave off that ideal feeling that friends are forever.
It just came full circle and I just really enjoyed that.
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Rachael
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Re: Suikoden II Best Ending just doesn't set well with me

Postby Rachael » Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:26 am

I don't see why one ending has to be more "true" than the other. They're both official I like to pick whichever one suits my daydreams at the moment. I do think the "good" ending is ridiculously sappy, but that's kind of a good thing sometimes. If I'm craving something more melancholy, I go with the "Riou becomes the leader of the new country" ending.

I did think the whole deal about Nanami faking her death. Really, what was the point? If she didn't think Riou should be risking his life for her...Well, who insisted on accompanying him to Rockaxe in the first place? And if she doesn't want to see Riou in pain, I'm sure he would have understood if she wanted to go back to Kyaro. She could have done exactly what she did in the story, only without letting Riou think she was dead. That seemed unnecessary, and thus, cruel.
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Hirathien
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Re: Suikoden II Best Ending just doesn't set well with me

Postby Hirathien » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:46 am

Well, with Riou thinking she was dead, he didn't have to worry about her well being at all. And who's to say Jowy wouldn't find out that she was hiding in Kyaro and using her in the war against Riou? You never know with different outcomes and stuff like that.

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Re: Suikoden II Best Ending just doesn't set well with me

Postby FoggyNotion » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:20 pm

I don't dislike the basic idea of the "best" ending, but I think it could have been executed a lot better than it was. The whole thing just seemed rushed & contrived somehow.

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Lemmy Claypool
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Re: Suikoden II Best Ending just doesn't set well with me

Postby Lemmy Claypool » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:48 am

DoReMi_Vampire wrote:Personally I like the Best Ending of SII, mostly for the same reasons that most other people have already mentioned.

The thing that actually does make me mad about is the realization that Shu is a complete asshole. If anything I think it's the Bad Ending that makes less sense. Riou loses everything he fought for (Jowy and Nanami) when in fact Shu could have told him about Nanami despite Jowy's death. Yet he chooses to keep silent about it knowing this would be the last nail in Riou's coffin.
Don't get me wrong though, from a storytelling-perspective it does make sense for the game to keep all the twists secret for the Best Ending alone. Plus Shu already showed he was willing to use Pilika as a shield against Jowy so I guess it wasn't completely uncalled for. :(

I always assumed that if you didn't go for the best ending, Nanami never survived anyway. Ergo, Shu not lying. Pure conjecture I know but the possibility of her surviving regardless never even crossed my mind.

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EstrangedIX
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Re: Suikoden II Best Ending just doesn't set well with me

Postby EstrangedIX » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:33 pm

I thought she only survived for the best ending too, but Shu's still a jerk either way.
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SuikoLove
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Re: Suikoden II Best Ending just doesn't set well with me

Postby SuikoLove » Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:08 am

For me, the "best" ending works not so much for sentimental reasons but because it shows Riou taking a strong, principled stand. By refusing to fight Jowy, Riou is defying both Jowy's vision of how things have to be and the will of the Rune of the Beginning. I like to think that Riou refused to fight Jowy less because he didn't want to kill his friend and more because he saw the battle as inherently pointless. I think a lot of the things that Jowy says to Riou during that confrontation expose some of the flaws in his logic and help explain the mistakes he made.

To the very end, Jowy seems convinced that one way or another, he can play some role in ending violence altogether. At first, he seeks power and influence to achieve his goals by acquiring the Black Sword Rune and working his way up through the Highland ranks. He succeeds to a point, orchestrating the death of Luca Blight and his own ascension to the Highland throne. But when he arguably has the opportunity to negotiate a meaningful peace agreement, he instead decides to continue the war, believing that by leading the Highland Army to crush the State forces, he could eventually establish a permanently peaceful state. However noble his intentions were in theory, in the end, the idea that he could accomplish something this lofty was delusional.

He still clings to this basic ideal even after Highland is defeated and he seems resigned to his fate. He recasts Riou in the role that he saw for himself, and recasts himself as the tragic martyr, the last obstacle that Riou must overcome to lead the new State into an era of everlasting peace. He believes that by destroying the Blight bloodline, the old Highland Kingdom will be forever suppressed, overlooking the possibility that for many, the idea of "Highland" could be bigger than the existence of a single family. This is what makes Jowy so interesting: he's so obviously intelligent, and has the capability to be ruthlessly cold and calculating, but through it all, he clings to this idealistic philosophy that gives him a strong moral core, but also leads him to make these hopelessly naive decisions and judgments.

I honestly think that by refusing to fight Jowy, Riou defeats him, even as they reconcile. Because if he fought and killed Jowy, then he would have done essentially what Jowy wanted him to do, and succumbed to the will of the Rune of the Beginning.

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Re: Suikoden II Best Ending just doesn't set well with me

Postby KFCrispy » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:37 pm

guys, it was actually Nanami's request to leave the army and not tell Riou. when she survives, it is she who asks Shu to keep it a secret. they both knew it would be best if Riou was separated from friendship/family concerns if he was going to be the leader. we know from the Tinto optional path that Riou is on the border of running away from his responsibilities to the army for his friends.

and yes, Jowy did want to die. you realize he directly and indirectly killed A LOT of people, right? so many soldiers of war come home completely traumatized. it's definitely hard for most people to understand because we read these fantasy stories of death and heroes killing enemies all day long.. but in reality most sane people are destroyed by the guilt that ensues. Jowy hated his actions through most of the story and basically threw away his humanity for his goal.

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sticky-runes
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Re: Suikoden II Best Ending just doesn't set well with me

Postby sticky-runes » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:43 am

As a video game ending, I think it's good, because seeing the 3 friends live happilly ever after is a reward for you going through the effort of gathering the 108 stars.

But if this were a book or movie or TV series, I think an ending like that would kinda suck. I would prefer to have a more tragic ending, like Jowy handing over his rune, saying how the story will end in the wake of his death, and dying in his best friend's arms.

But to be honest, I normally prefer the sad endings to these games.

Bringing back gremio in S1 seemed silly, because you still see his spirit appearing at the end when Windy is rejected by the Soul Eater.
And that vomit-inducing ending we got to S5 where we see all the dead characters rejoicing in my victory and being reunited with Lyon - bleeeurghhh!!! Give me the ending where the hero receives Dawn and Twilight and breaks down and travels with Georg. Much more satisfying for me.
S4's 108 ending wasn't too bad. Snowe finally admits he was wrong, and does what he can to make up for it, and the hero gets to live with his rune in it's balanced state, and helps you kick ass throughout Tactics. Lovely.


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